Do you find this offensive?

[Meeting]

The Theatre Royal Stratford East is putting on a show and have blocked out 2 dates as "Blackout" nights where they encourage (but I don't think plan to enforce) that only black people may attend these performances.

I saw them discussing it on Piers Morgan and neither of the guests advocating for it were able to convince me that this type of segregation was at all beneficial.

Does anybody think this is a good idea? Personally I think segregation based on skin colour has no place in society, no matter who benefits from it. But I'm interested to hear from others who might away it differently?

Every racial matter is either black or white af if other races didn't exist. As a non white non black person, I feel excluded and tired of all race related debates.

Why? That's what it is

are you black? If not then you need to ask if anyone who is black is offended.

If you cannot understand the reasons why the two are not comparable, then 🤷‍♀️

They are. You either segregate or you don't. You can't say it's ok to exclude white people if you would complain about them saying it the other way around.

No but I'm a gypsy with a lifetime of experience of racism

There was an article recently about the armed forces not taking any white males.
All totally excluded irrespective of ability / qualifications.
The senior HR / admissions officer resigned as she said they were having to take people just because they were not white even though they were not qualified or suited to the job.

If the armed forces are using positive discrimination then I am not in the least but surprised that other organisations, businesses are doing this very openly.
It is discrimination
I don’t want my family to get a job just because of their skin. They are seeing something that they should not.

Your dc should make his applications blind. Ignore the discrimination.
See how far he gets and make the organisations admit to what they are doing to him.

I am white.

I am not offended.

Even if I were offended, that would be a 'me' problem.

Create equity isn't the same as treating everyone equally.

But that sounds like a situation where people were being forced apart because someone thought they would prefer it. This is something that's being offered to people that they can choose to do if they prefer it. It's not the same.

If the point of this move by the theatre was to provoke thought and debate (which is a very laudable aim of any artist) then they have achieved their objective, I would say, so I can probably see the point, my discomfort (and my pondering of the reasons for it) IS the point.

if the aim is for a more diverse audience, then why target specific groups and ignore others? Surely that is the opposite of diversity?

There are lots of things in life that are segregated by accident/non-design. People tend to clump together, to think there is no place for people of different races, to talk away from any 'gaze', is incorrect and this is needed.

There are also things though which suffer from a lack of diversity problem - which is often an economic problem - and theatre is one of them, partly due to how much it genuinely costs to put on a play, meaning that a play ticket is a luxury item.

I think that a public place like a theatre, church, hotel, restaurant, spa, swimming pool, drinking fountain should never ever publicly discourage anyone of any race to join in. It is a dangerous and divisive prescient in my opinion.

Create equity isn't the same as treating everyone equally.

Ooofff this is so so wrong and depressing to read. Actually makes me want to cry with how twisted this is.

A more diverse audience overall, not on any particular night. Anyone who goes to the theatre knows that the audience is overwhelmingly and disproportionately white.

I am not offended btw. Uncomfortable and pondering why, as explained above, definitely not offended.

Op several posters have explained why this arrangement is beneficial to have to a mostly black audience.

There are so many more dates where this isn't the case.

What's the problem?

That's interesting Meeting. Because I am dual heritage (traveller descent), and tho I wasn't raised in an entirely typical traveller culture (tho was to some extent - it's complex and not wholly relevant here), my partner is a traveller, as well as loads of friends and family etc, it's a significant part of my identity I feel. I'd totally feel entitled, and keen, to go to traveller-only theatre nights as a dual-heritage traveller if these were offered. Not for any random play I wanted to see - (I would find that strange and a little patronising in all honesty). But IF there was a play or dance performance or whatever which specifically dealt with issues related to the travelling community, and the possibility of maybe a discussion forum thing afterwards, then sure as shit I would love to go to a travellers-only showing of that performance. Because it would be fascinating to hear all the views - as you will know we are a pretty fucking diverse community! - and I think the discussion would be richer and more honest without the presence of those who have no direct experience of traveller life. (The non-traveller-gaze if you like - what's wrong with that? I am specifically using really neutral language here which is part of the point - I might say that particular thing differently in a traveller-only group and that might be OK - but in a mixed group why be offensive, confusing or upsetting to move white British people? And that's part of my point about the value of traveller-only post-theatre space, really. )

I'd also see a massive benefit in there being a mixed audience showing and discussion after. (Without outing myself too much, a massive part of my work is to do with opening up discussion about travellers to the non-traveller-community in the hope of challenging the racism and prejudice we/they experience daily). So I would go to both performances. In fact I would go to EVERY fucking performance of this show, and EVERY discussion afterwards. Were it to exist.

That's why I'd really love to know what any black mumsnetters who feel happy to comment on this thread from that perspective, feel about the whole thing. And any traveller mumsnetters too, anybody really who is of an ethnic background other than purely white British, and has a view on whether they would attend this or not, value it or not?

(Obviously the views of white British mumsnetters are interesting and valid too, tho I am less interested in the views of reactive racists if I am entirely honest. Peace and love to all, tho!)

Many couples in the UK, and especially London, are mixed race. How black do they have to be to be acceptable on the blackout night? And if one of them is white, do they have to go to the theatre on different nights? The organisers don’t seem to have thought this through for a multicultural society like Britain.

I'm not sure if there's comparable reasons why an event would need to be just white people though?

I'm struggling to think of a discussion or event in history where my white ancestors were subjected to barbaric and systematic oppression from black people, the effects of which are still affecting a white woman like me?

You also make a very sound point

we Have white and black partners in our family.
They are seeing it on another night as they feel they are not welcome.

White people are not actually banned from it though.

I'm not offended. I wouldn't be offended by an all-working class or all-female or all-South Asian event either. It just sounds like are trying to get more black people to attend to the theatre. Theatre in the UK is mainly a white and middle-class thing. I can understand why some people might be hesitant to attend if they don't fall into those categories.

Is it discrimination when a child with a barrier to learning gets extra help and attention to achieve their potential when the other children don't get that? Should the child just be allowed to fail because at least everyone will be being treated the same?

That's what positive discrimination is. It is giving assistance to groups of people so they, as a group, will have equal opportunities. It is not all about natural ability and qualification. If only one in six people in engineering is female, then that will put off other females from pursuing that as a career because it is seen as a "male" career, and as a minority they will face bias and one-sided attitudes from within that environment, and likely be discriminated against at the application/interview level.

But if you force these environments to be more equal, then application/interviews will eventually become fairer, and those sexist/racist/sectarian attitudes won't thrive from within. Same for the police. Same for teaching. These are profession which are all dominated by certain groups which has nothing to do with them being the best people for the job.

Let me help. It is segregation. Just as having separate teams for men's football and women's football, is discrimination. And having different age groups separated in child care is discrimination. And sorting letters for Birmingham and Manchester is discrimination.

Not all discrimination is bad. It depends on the reason. Same with segregation (which is largely the same thing).

I wouldn't say it offends me but it makes me feel a little uncomfortable. I'm old enough to remember Charlton Heston picketing a cinema somewhere in America that was showing a premiere of El Cid because it was segregated. As a young person it seemed like the beginning of the end of segregation so it seems strange to see it happening even if the motivation is different. So no I'm not offended but I am a little uncomfortable.