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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Do you find this offensive?

659 replies

Meeting · 25/05/2023 12:55

The Theatre Royal Stratford East is putting on a show and have blocked out 2 dates as "Blackout" nights where they encourage (but I don't think plan to enforce) that only black people may attend these performances.

I saw them discussing it on Piers Morgan and neither of the guests advocating for it were able to convince me that this type of segregation was at all beneficial.

Does anybody think this is a good idea? Personally I think segregation based on skin colour has no place in society, no matter who benefits from it. But I'm interested to hear from others who might away it differently?

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Meeting · 26/05/2023 20:03

@AtchinTan very interesting, I have never heard of anything like that before.

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MasterBeth · 26/05/2023 20:06

Meeting · 26/05/2023 20:03

@AtchinTan very interesting, I have never heard of anything like that before.

Do you think it was wrong of @AtchinTan to go to such a performance? Do you think she is racist?

Meeting · 26/05/2023 20:12

MasterBeth · 26/05/2023 20:06

Do you think it was wrong of @AtchinTan to go to such a performance? Do you think she is racist?

Please show me where I've said that anyone who goes to the show is racist?

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CandyLips · 26/05/2023 20:37

Summerfun2023 · 26/05/2023 12:51

White people can be the victims of racism too, as can any race.

No

Are you denying that this happens ?

MasterBeth · 26/05/2023 21:17

Meeting · 26/05/2023 20:12

Please show me where I've said that anyone who goes to the show is racist?

You haven't. I'm asking if you think she is.

Kanaloa · 26/05/2023 21:41

Meeting · 26/05/2023 17:23

I'll answer for myself, not on behalf of others

I'm a gypsy and I highly doubt there'll be a play about the struggles my race have faced any time soon. If there was, I wouldn't want a night like you describe. I'd want as wide a variety of people possible to watch it.

But that’s the thing - it doesn’t matter what you specifically want. It’s like me saying ‘well I’m a woman and I don’t want women only swimming sessions.’ Just because I am happy to swim in mixed company does not invalidate the wishes of other women to attend women only sessions. If I want to swim in mixed company then I can go to another session.

It’s the same here. Nobody is saying black people must only attend showings on blackout night. It’s an option offered for those who would feel more comfortable.

Kanaloa · 26/05/2023 21:44

And if you want a play about the struggles of gypsy people that reflects your own experiences - write one. That’s how plays and other literature come to be written. And then since it’s your play you can insist that there is no night for only gypsy people, and that every play is shown to a mixed audience.

And if you have a Q&A afterwards you can answer 100 ignorant questions from those who don’t have any experience of gypsy people and lifestyles, meaning there are less opportunities for the gypsy people in the audience to have their experiences and questions heard. But of course that won’t matter because the important thing is that people who can go on any of the other nights of the month are not excluded.

Refrosty · 26/05/2023 21:58

Meeting · 26/05/2023 17:23

I'll answer for myself, not on behalf of others

I'm a gypsy and I highly doubt there'll be a play about the struggles my race have faced any time soon. If there was, I wouldn't want a night like you describe. I'd want as wide a variety of people possible to watch it.

Why do you doubt there would be a play? Not being confrontational here I'm genuinely interested. Putting aside the fact there are indeed plays, why would you 'highly' doubt that your people would want to share their experiences and struggles via the arts?

5128gap · 26/05/2023 21:59

Black people are not being forced to attend specific performances because they are not deemed fit to share a theatre with white people. Therefore it is not 'segregation', and the word shouldn't be bandied about to describe a situation with no resemblance to it.
Likening two nights of a theatre performance being targeted to black people to the discrimination faced by POC who were deemed inferior to share a space with white people, is as unintelligent as it is offensive.

AtchinTan · 26/05/2023 22:49

The use of the word Gypsy is a political hot potato, but the use of the lowercase g is indicative of so so much, regardless of who uses it, and is exactly why individual communities, be they Black or Rom or whoever, need to be able to have member only encouraged nights to deal with culturally sensitive stuff within their own communities.

Grendalsmum · 26/05/2023 22:56

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

Grendalsmum · 26/05/2023 23:01

Actually, just googled - ignore me!

Meeting · 27/05/2023 06:55

This reply has been deleted

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

It's not problematic

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42n82noluv · 27/05/2023 07:10

It's one performance of the run.
The Black out performance is to create a space for Black attendees to watch the show which explores issues of race 'free from the white gaze'.
I am Black and an avid theatre person. I cannot wait to see this show on this particular night! We will be able to "oooh", "hmmm", laugh and cry at all the right moments without disapproving stares, which I have genuinely received. And for anyone who knows anything about the history of Black theatre and audiences in the UK I believe this night is huge.
The artistic director of TRSE explains it perfectly here https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2023/may/23/black-out-nights-at-the-theatre-tambo-and-bones-theatre-royal-stratford-east

Black Out nights at the theatre are vital to centre and celebrate Black audiences | Nadia Fall

Tambo & Bones asks challenging questions about race and exploitation so we at Theatre Royal Stratford East offer one dedicated performance for Black audiences to watch together

https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2023/may/23/black-out-nights-at-the-theatre-tambo-and-bones-theatre-royal-stratford-east

blondieminx · 27/05/2023 07:16

I’m as white as they come with blonde hair & blue eyes

its 2 nights out of the entire run. It’s an inclusivity thing and if it makes some potential audience members more comfortable & confident to attend then I think it’s great!

if you want to be offended about something then let’s look at cost of living, the nhs, the absolute state of corruption, the beaches and on and on and on.

this is just yet another pathetic divisive tactic and dear god I’ve had enough.

PoussinBoussin · 27/05/2023 07:17

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

MrsMikeDrop · 27/05/2023 07:20

JumbleAndKitchen · 25/05/2023 12:59

Im not offended.

Whats your position on women only events?

That's actually a great point

WomanFromTheNorth · 27/05/2023 07:36

Not offensive at all. Get back to your Daily Mail.

MrsMikeDrop · 27/05/2023 07:39

A few years ago I had a boss who was a total misogynistic pig. He was offended by "Women's Day" and any other women's event, found it hideously offensive. When I pointed out to him that every day was "Man's day" he still didn't get it. Have a think about that OP.

TeaKlaxon · 27/05/2023 09:13

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Have you read any of the posts explaining why this is reasonable?

Do you have anything to say about those thought out and well explained posts?

AtchinTan · 27/05/2023 10:41

And the missing part of the hat trick, with your choice of terminology and use of the small g! Trying to think the very best: You're exposing your total lack of knowledge of Rom politics!

I'm trying to be polite. ‘Problematic’ is the tip of the iceberg of what I and a great many others think!

The use of it's no different than in the Black community with those who think calling themselves the N word is cool, or great to monetarise through rap, drill etc. Others reckon they’re reclaiming it, others they’re debasing themselves and everyone else with it, while others argue to remove Of Mice and Men from exam syllabuses because of it. Contested ground and hugely aggravating to many.

To many Rom internationally, including UK, it is a xenonym – a name given by others. Adopting it is unwise.
'Gypsy' and ‘Gyppo’ are just contractions of Little Egyptian, and refers to those groupings originally sold through specialist slave markets, then part of Little/Lower Egypt, who’s surviving descendants much later presented themselves to the courts of Europe as Princes, and Princesses of Little Egypt, trading those specialist skills. If you knew history you'd know why.

The contraction has ever since been used as a pejorative term to disenfranchise and lump together whole groups of unwanted mobile people, genetically related or not.

‘Gyp’ and ‘Gypped’ are derivations used to say pain, and deceitful dishonest.
What’s not to like about it all, eh?

Rom are trying to stop the re-writing of our history, the claim that we are of one wellspring 1000 years back, (where do you really come from?) the insistence that we must fit Gaudja land and race based systems, division of us by skin tones, that we don't know our own history, never had a written language, criminalization, language destruction, enforced assimilation into Gaudja culture -entering at at the bottom of it, and peculiar to the UK - enforced assimilation with Irish people.

You're using a claim of belonging to Rom culture, specifically to argue against Black people having just two nights of being with their own, to watch a play about what being Black means to them, when Rom the world over have fought for centuries for their own spaces to live and be together. Mental gymnastics!

If you must argue against Black cultural gatherings, I suggest you don't try to bring another race into things when displaying little knowledge of its traditional or modern politics.

AtchinTan · 27/05/2023 10:43

Above post was supposed to be attached to this:

Meeting · Today 06:55

Grendalsmum · Yesterday 22:56

AtchinTan Sorry, if you don't mind me asking, why is Gypsy problematic?

It's not problematic

Wimpeyspread · 27/05/2023 10:45

I don’t have the spare energy to be offended by everything. Presumably the show is on for multiple nights when anyone can go, so no one is being excluded. Do you feel offended by autism friendly nights?

Meeting · 27/05/2023 14:17

@AtchinTan with the greatest of respect, you clearly have a lot of knowledge about gypsy history but a large portion of gypsies can't read or write above primary school level so none of us care about whether the word is spelled with a capital or lower G

I've seen a lot of your posts before and you clearly have a lot of knowledge and I think you come from gypsies but as far as I'm aware you do not live at all in a gypsy lifestyle so I don't think you should keep claiming to be an authority over things

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