Do you find this offensive?

[Meeting]

The Theatre Royal Stratford East is putting on a show and have blocked out 2 dates as "Blackout" nights where they encourage (but I don't think plan to enforce) that only black people may attend these performances.

I saw them discussing it on Piers Morgan and neither of the guests advocating for it were able to convince me that this type of segregation was at all beneficial.

Does anybody think this is a good idea? Personally I think segregation based on skin colour has no place in society, no matter who benefits from it. But I'm interested to hear from others who might away it differently?

And white only spaces ? No ? Thought not.

I just want to be equal.

You’re more equal than black people, OP. That’s the whole point, trying to level the playing field.

Are they going to make sure that the black people attending, actually have the correct heritage pertaining to the show?

@MrsAnonstrikesagain do you think they need to, or do you think that black people will be able to work out for themselves whether they want to go or not?

That is so unbelievably offensive I don't even know how to reply. Are you suggesting I should hide my race away and pretend I'm something else?
Don't dare try and tell me I'm privileged when a large portion of society are racist to me in ways that haven't been socially acceptable for other races in several years.

@ancientgran

No, of course I don't think that. I do think that systemic racism and inbuilt societal structure leads many black people to have fewer opportunities to engage with art and culture than many white people. And that, since white people do often seem to want to tell black people what they're experiencing, I can see that an opportunity for a black audience to see and discuss a play relating to a uniquely black experience, without the presence of white people, could create an opportunity in which arts feel more accessible and/or relevant to some subset of people within the black community.

Someone earlier made reference to the idea of a play aimed at a jewish audience. And, while I don't hugely see the need for a jews-only night at a play, I do know that as someone who's half jewish, I would experience a play around the holocaust differently than my non-Jewish husband. He might absolutely get something from it, but he wouldn't have the same visceral 'but for luck of time and place, it could have been me' experience.

I will also add, re the Martin Luther King Jr. thing, I'm American, and I see a whole lot of politicians who would absolutely not have supported anything about him at the time, and whose understanding of his work is limited to a few widely known quotes, using his name. And then I see speakings and writings by his family, objecting to this co-opting of his work and legacy to further an agenda, and that's what I felt was happening here.

No, I didn’t say you should hide your race away 🙄

But the fact remains that white passing people don’t face the same prejudice as visibly BAME people.

I haven’t said you can’t experience racism, but you are white, black people are not.

Wholeheartedly agree with the poster who said those against it sound exactly like men complaining about women only spaces. If you agree with single sex spaces but find this offensive, ask yourself why. “Because men are dangerous to women” you’ll probably answer. Well, yes, and white people are dangerous to people who aren’t white in a similar way. Does that mean EVERY SINGLE man or white person is violent, misogynist or racist? Of course not. But we accept that as a privileged class they as a group pose a threat to the equality and wellbeing of the less privileged group. Would you similarly object to groups for other ethnicities or, for example, speakers of another language, recovering addicts, gay people? Or is it just because this concerns black people and you actually have a big dollop of internalised racism?

They would be allowed in, because EVERYBODY IS ALLOWED IN

I think the PP means you can spot a black person across the road but you can't spot a gypsy.

Well that's how I read it anyway.

Racial segregation wasn’t a success the first time around, so I’m not sure it will work this time round. I’m happy to let people of other races go to the theatre without being there myself, but I’ve never subjected anyone to my “white gaze” so my absence won’t spare anyone that weirdness I’m afraid.

Couldn’t care less.

I’d love to but my ancestors were slaves and we don’t have any records of where we’re from or any connection to those communities 😂

I think it’s a shame that so many groups feel the need to cut themselves off from other groups although I understand some need for their own spaces at some times and for some things. I am white, middle class, straight, of British Anglican heritage but I am prepared to learn respectfully about others groups. I can’t walk a mile in a black/Asian/gay person’s moccasins if they won’t lend me their moccasins.

Its simple. It's a way of creating a safe space for people of colour who would otherwise feel uncomfortable watching something centred on their race, in the presence of people that are white.

I'm a person of colour. My parents are Punjabi. I wouldn't feel comfortable watching something that depicts the bloody partition of the punjab in 1947 in front of a crowd of white British people. You have no idea how uncomfortable these situations can be for a person of colour who is also immensely proud of being British.

I understand where you're coming from. But they haven't banned any race. They have encouraged a race instead. There's a difference in language.

You're focused on seeing it through a very specific perspective. One which actually makes you come across quite angry. Just see it for what it is. An encouragement for black youth to come and see it. I see no issue with that at all

Dianne Abbott was right first time.

But the point is that not everything that minority communities do is about educating people outside that community. There are incredible opportunities for white people to learn about the experience of people of colour, or straight people to learn about the experience of queer people etc. More opportunities than ever. There are some incredible books out there (Why I'm No Longer Talking to White People About Race was an excellent way in to learn about the experience of people of colour), there are tonnes of opportunities to read lived experiences and perspectives online.

But minority groups don't owe it to majority groups to centre those majority groups in everything they do. So if your first reaction to a theatre night geared towards people of a particular minority group is that it might deprive you, from a majority group, of an opportunity to learn about that minority group's experience, that is precisely the sort of majority-centring that these sorts of initiatives are designed to address.

I'm a white gay woman - so I sort of understand the logic of black people who want white people to stop making race issues all about them, because I often have the exact same reaction to straight people who make gay issues all about them.

I don't think it's about segregating audiences. I'd say it's more s gim8ck to target groups that in the past maybe haven't accessed the theatre. Ultimately I'd imagine it's a marketing ploy.

I don’t mind the idea but I don’t like the name and find that a bit offensive. It should be something like BAME Day instead. We don’t use terms like blacklist or black sheep anymore due to the connotations.

I would assume the name was devised by black people who are also behind the event itself, so I think we can take their steer as to whether it is an offensive name.

I don’t think it’s a ‘gimmick’, I think it is about providing a community with a particular relationship with artistic material being encouraged to experience that material within their community if they wish.

As I think about it more I’m not sure it’s that different to gay clubs, for example.

Wtf 😂 This forum is mental sometimes.

OP you're hardly going to get a balanced discussion on Piers Morgan are you? But I guess that's why you're asking so fair enough.

It's a great idea to have a black only night, and the big reason is lived experience and racism. It's like having a women only night for a discussion show that discusses the terrible treatment of women by the Met.

You're not saying in my example that men are below you, or they're not usually welcome, you're saying 'we just want a break from having to explain what mansplaining is, why a man's experience is different, why some men do not understand, how we've all had experience of being assaulted, or intimidated, or whatever, or just the need to explain key terms or concepts or justifications'. It means a different and often richer discussion that you couldn't have if men were there. They'll be there other nights, and their input will be interesting, but it's valuable to not have them there, too.

I love his post @Gigglemous so well said.

I can’t believe you think ‘skin tone’ is too broad, but ‘chromosome’ isn’t. Women-only spaces don’t exist so we can sit and talk about our chromosomes, do they? They exist because we want to discuss a shared experience in the way the world treats us, in the way men view us, difficulties we face because of our sex, instances of sexism, of assault, of discrimination. We have women-only spaces so we can talk about embarrassing or painful or traumatic events amongst other people who understand, and away from those who don’t.

Do you think women are some sort of cultural monolith, or would you agree that women also have diverse lifestyles?

Because although you’re right that there are cultural differences between Jamaicans/Windrush descendants, and second gen Nigerian immigrants. But there are likely to be shared experiences and situations between them, just as there are shared experiences for women of different ages and backgrounds and incomes. And if some black people choose to spend a single evening with people who share and understand those experiences, I’ve got no problem with it.

@Meeting OP you are just coming across as ignorant and racist. Admittedly you haven't posted anything as racist but you've ignored posts explaining to you why they have encouraged black people only to attend. You're ignoring quite reasonable explanations and seems you are insisting on wanting to be right.

You need to properly read what the play is actually about, and then perhaps you’ll understand.

People of colour are hugely underrepresented in the arts, both on stage and in the audience - if a story is made by black people for black people about black culture, why shouldn’t there be 2 performances out of the 100 or so for its intended audience to engage with it without white people altering the dynamic with their inherent privilege?

If a play written by a former suffragette, about women’s suffrage put on 2 performances for a women only audience, would you feel the same?