How to explain your "mental load" without sounding like a whiney b*tch

[Justsawamagpiechasingarat]

Just that really.
Marriage is absolutely on the rocks but still a lot of love underneath it all and we are committed to trying to work it out.
Went to first couples therapy recently and I found it really hard to describe the practical things that I wish DW would help with. When I started listing actual tasks it sounded ridiculous - they were all things that only take a couple of minutes and aren't really a big deal. DW's problems with me / life were HUGE and I am there saying I feel undervalued because she never makes a packed lunch for our child. I do however think that my gripes are as valid as hers - just not well communicated.
I really hate the term "mental load" and don't like the things that people share about women taking one thing out of a dishwasher only to end up cleaning the entire house etc etc (no offence if you are prone to sharing them, you will know the things that I am trying to describe).
I need to find a way of describing this problem and how it makes me feel....but I am really struggling.
By the way - I am not intending to drip feed anything but have a feeling that I may open up to bitching about stuff more and more as this thread goes on. I am trying to express my feelings and react to my wife's feelings in an open and healthy way IRL so might need to let off some anonymous steam here! Apologies in advance.

Changed username for this one but long time member / poster. Genuinely saw a magpie chasing a rat yesterday near my house. Disturbing and disgusting but natural I suppose. Curious how things ended up.

@Justsawamagpiechasingarat

I have to say I don’t think the older relative is the only one who is selfish here.

Read a book called Boundaries by Henry Cloud.

@AlienSupaStar
If you mean DW is also selfish, I completely agree. If you mean I am, please could you elaborate as I could genuinely learn from that perspective.
DS is obviously insanely selfish as he is 4.

It’s very hard to quantify. I’ve been waking up in the middle of the night to get housework (and sometimes WFH done).

DH watches TV / goes to a match in the evening. He doesn’t get it. And is knackered after one afternoon with DS.

@Gowlett
This sounds quite familiar. How do you not get eaten up by resentment from it though?

@Justsawamagpiechasingarat Lol at your comment about DS.

I mean your DW is selfish. I appreciate being beholden to the relative because of finances but that is becoming / has become such a choke hold for you. You need to start applying boundaries and standing strong about them, consistently.

That book really helped me clarify my feelings and then articulate them to my DH.

Absolutely totally this. Thank you, this has been a hot topic in our house recently and I haven’t been able to convey the depth of my feelings about it, but it’s this.

Yes, of course I can do the million and one thankless tasks that need to be done to keep life running smoothly, yes I can be the person who is monitoring, absorbing and trying to improve everyone’s emotional state, yes I can facilitate everyone else’s lives as well as do my fairly demanding FT job, but the real problem is that it’s never questioned and nobody cares enough to think of doing any of those things for me! No one cares if all the shit falls to me and how that limits time/opportunities in my life because I’m there to facilitate, and THAT lack of care / value is the problem, not the shit boring jobs in themselves.

Whenever I try to explain this DH’s take away is ‘ok, I need to empty the dishwasher more’. No, you need to know when the dishwasher needs salt and make sure you’ve bought it in time, and when the dishwasher breaks you need to let it cross your mind that you could be the person to organise the repair!

OP I am right there with you, complaining about any single job on the mental load list seems petty, but it’s not the individual jobs that are the problem.

If I just get up and get myself ready tomorrow when DW asks if I have got DS's stuff ready, he's had breakfast etc. I say "no, you'll have to do that today" she will feel dropped in it. She isn't wrong either, she is used to me doing all of those things so I will be dropping her in it.
Rather than drop her in it, why not say the night before - taking DS to school means you will be the one getting him dressed, packing his bag and lunch etc.

This kind of illustrates the issue - when one person normally has oversight/control of a task, and then they pass over one little piece of it to someone else as a one-off, they still retain responsibility. The other person is simply 'helping out'.

I don't think it works well to try to split tasks 50/50 - so you both have responsibility for taking DS to preschool for example.

Instead, split the tasks - so you take total responsibility for school runs and packed lunches. You do it every day, you know where everything is etc.
But then give your DW a different task, for example - clothing. She takes responsibility for laundry, putting clothes away, changing DS's clothes seasonally, buying new when needed, getting his feet measured.

If you are the main contact for school/pre-school and keep track of teacher training days, parent's evenings and dressing up requests - great.
Give your DW total responsibility for doctor, dentist and haircut appointments in return.

@cyncope
I agree that having completely separate tasks would often be better than dividing tasks. We do this where we can and it is better. DW does the washing up each evening and generally that works fine.
When it comes to things like the school drop off life is a bit murkier. One day a week I start work early to attend a mandatory meeting (the other two working days I have changed my hours so that I can take DS to school). DW works from home on that day so she takes DS to school - it is the same day every week and I always do the lunch box, breakfast, getting DS dressed etc thing because DW tried on the first week and ended up shouting at DS for hours, then dragging him along the road to school even though he was distraught. She told me it was all too much for her and instead of putting my foot down and putting DS in that position again, I just sucked it up and did the extra work. I know that DW should be able to do these things, I think she is selfish and a total baby for not doing these things, it makes her very unattractive to me that she isn't trying harder or doing better, but at the end of the day I cannot leave DS to suffer.
If it was just the case that they arrived to school a bit late, his lunch was forgotten or shit (in which case he can have a school dinner anyway) and he was a bit scruffy I would totally let that ride. DS being massively upset when I could have done something to stop it is different though.

In your update she sounds abusive. Is this really a relationship you want to be in?

I do have massive doubts around this sometimes - when DW is stressed (usually with work) she has very little patience with DS. Shouting at him is not a frequent thing, but it is always in the back of my mind that if I don't make things easier for her she might do that. I am very hopeful that the counselling will help her to learn how to control her stress so that she doesn't take it out on DS.

This comic explains it quite neatly:
https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/

Your wife sounds horrible, sorry. I really feel that the problem here is less your inability to express the concept of the mental load and more her inability to behave reasonably or value what you do, and that's not because she doesn't have a word for the concept. It sounds like a toxic relationship in which you're running around doing everything because doing less than that will expose your son to her temper. If she were a man, people would be saying LTB.

I'm afraid that I agree with this.

It's very similar to a thread I read a few months ago which may be helpful if I can't find it. In that case the OP's wife was acting like an entitled alpha male-type and the relationship energy it described was very similar to the OP's posts on this thread

With each update from you, I’m more of the view that your DW just isn’t very nice. Sorry.

It’s not about mental load. It’s that she’s selfish, lacks respect for you, is self-absorbed, doesn’t appreciate you, views your DS as competition (that’s particularly upsetting). I suspect she had the financial upper hand, together with her mother?

You don’t have an equal partner here, and given this is because of your wife’s personality and your financial situation, I’m afraid to say I can’t see that changing very much. Mostly, though, it’s your DS who you need to prioritise in this.

I see I’ve said basically the same thing as @RoseAdage. So sorry you’re in this situation, OP.

I hear you.

I went full time and haven't looked back but then my youngest is 11 so it's a bit different.

I was once spinning about 26 plates in the kitchen and DP breezed in and asked if he could do anything. I said, flip that egg and he asked "what shall I use?" - I am actually laughing as I type. But there is a point where it's not actually funny.

You are doing an amazing job OP. You seem to be spinning all the plates to zero applause or even a hint of recognition. Things need to change. It's not good enough for example for an adult person to simply not cook whilst moaning about and belittling what's being cooked for them. This alone is not a small thing!

Sorry but all I can see is LTB here.

You are tiptoeing around, running yourself ragged and exhausted having to outthink her every possible mood, otherwise you or more likely, your son gets the brunt of her rage.

You can't live like that. And counselling with someone who's abusive never works.

I cant imagine that you would be attracted to someone who's screaming at your DS because of their own inadequacies.

See one of the questions frequently asked to establish abusive behaviour is "do you feel you are walking on eggshells?"

This seems to indicate that you are along with the food you serve and getting DS ready to minimise impact on her.

It’s very difficult to not sound like and I don’t mean that as a negative. What different people go through means different things to different people. I’ll be honest, when I was younger and knew very little about mental health (and to be fair it was spoken about less) I’d think if Person A was off with (for example) stress “what do they have to be stressed about”, but how different impact some people is so variable. Just because what I think of as being stressful or not, doesn’t mean it’s not the same for others. In the same way, if something is impacting you it may come across differently to others. Hopefully they will still listen and support. This all made a lot more sense in my head!

Um… does your DW not realise at all that she is demanding to be centre-of-the-world, dinner-on-table, sex-on-tap person like some kind of 50s husband? Does that not make her feel a tiny bit shit? And taking her jealousy out on your child, or to punish you is seriously troubling.

Sorry, I had to go and take care of something so haven't had a chance to respond. I have just read all the messages and I really appreciate everyone's honesty.
You are all spot on about the financial situation. I have been very stupid to put myself in this position with someone I can't trust to look after me and DS. DW isn't exactly well paid but neither am I. Neither of us have enough money to go it alone, but of course she has the financial backing of older relative.

Why is DS not at the centre of DW would too? If he was she would share his care related tasks too. Did she want a child?

No wonder you don’t want to be intimate. I felt like this with my DH. Now he does a fair amount of the mental load and home making - I feel more like it. I feel more relaxed, less burnt out and I like and respect him more. Resentment is a real passion killer.

Fair Play by Eve ?Rodesky is helpful. The cards are the most help. It’s quite hetro-centric and assumes that the male in the partnership needs to up their game and makes some assumptions based on gender, but I think the principles are helpful. That when you run a house, have a family, elderly care and jobs - there is a looong list of ‘shit that needs doing’ - lots of it undervalued and invisible. She made a list of it all and then produced cards. You divvy the cards up fairly and agree minimum standards. Although it’s a bit Americanised and a bit old fashioned in terms of how families are comprised, it’s worth a look I think?

Urgh, I typed a message and it disappeared.

From reading your posts it doesn’t sound like your wife wants to put any effort in to making your marriage work. It’s all one sided. Some of the examples sound like weaponised incompetence too.

You say there’s love but it doesn’t sound like your wife has much respect for you or what you do, therefore I don’t feel that’s very loving at all. If you’ve expressed how you’re feeling and how hard it is then she should at least want to resolve it somehow but she doesn’t seem interested. And I suppose, why would she when making your life easier will make her life harder (even though it’s fair thing to do).

All this coupled with the demands about sex and being melodramatic when you ask her to do something seems to me like she thinks her needs trump everything. I’d probably leave at this point.

You sound like a domestic appliance that she's unhappy with