Women's Park Run Record smashed to smithereens

[changedforanswer]

The way to beat records for men to self ID and run as a female. Straight into the record books and stand aside females whilst man in dress sets the record. Is nothing safe from men anymore?

Was a married man until just 4 years ago.

Indeed the reason I mentioned this is an official questioned a trans women running in a female race and the result was horrendous. No females are at risk of course!

Of course not @changedforanswer we just need to stop worrying our pretty little heads about it eh?

You are trying to argue that it's OK to stymie women in SOME leagues. That is not how sports works. It's supposed to be fair at all levels. How is an amateur female ever going to make it to professional level if she's being beaten by males before she gets there?

Why is the backlash unfair against a male born competitor who is free to compete in the correct sex class, but running roughshod over all the women is completely fine?

The identity does not change the physical fact of the male advantage. Sports is not sex segregated to reassure female athletes that we think they're women. We know everyone considers them women because they're expected to put up with the unfair, discriminatory double standards that people like you want to impose. You always know who the women are when it comes to deprioritising them.

People like me?! You know nothing about me, and I can assure you I am not interested in discriminatory double standards.

I don't think trans women should compete as women in professional sports. But this is a bloody park run. Something that you can do with your kid or your dog on a sunday morning. Something you can put your name down and Runny McRunnerson if you fancy. I am totally against the deterioration of women's rights in this topic. But what else is this person meant to do? I can't begrudge someone for wanting to do a Sunday park run or for putting down the gender they identify with. This entire situation could have happened entirely unintentionally.

But no, sure, I just love discriminating against women, espeically if a few double standards at thrown in 🙄

And please show me what professional running association requires winning parkrun for access - I am super curious.

I know enough about you because you have told us all.

If you think it's OK to allow males to compete against females because it's "only" a park run, everything I said stands. You are in favour of deprioritising women against males in their own sport as long as you personally don't think it matters in that league.

What else is this person meant to do? Compete against the other male born people, of course. Identify how you like, sex class is what matters here.

It is against sporting integrity and fairness and has a knock on effect all over. No, you don't get to tell the amateur or lower level participants that they don't matter against this person because this person is male. Which is exactly what you're doing. No idea why acknowledging this offends you when actually doing it doesn't.

I am not telling anyone anything. You are, with your apparently very chipped shoulder, reading a whole lot of things I've never said into what I wrote. And honestly there is zero need to be so agressive. It's unecessary and it's unpleasant.

I am not deprioritising women. I am saying that thsi could have happened with zero intention of harming or discriminating against anyone. That is the only point I was trying to make, and why I can't join the queue to want to burn her on the stakes for doing it.

Ffs. Once we accept that it's fine to pit men against women in organised local runs, there's no argument not to allow it everywhere else. Sorry, apart from the argument that Nordicrain on Mumsnet thinks that's where the line should be drawn because she thinks that one matters. Good luck with that one.

It's a land grab, an erosion of boundaries to set the tone for all other competitions and it's just completely unfair to the female competitors. Why you think the local ones don't matter is your own argument to make.

But what else is this person meant to do?

Not accept a medal or a title for 'breaking a record' that they didn't break at all because they are not a woman.

They could train much harder and break the men's record if they are arsed.

I don't see the point of saying 'oh, it's all for fun' when it isn't all for fun if there is a record to break and a medal. Why didn't they say 'no thanks, I'm just here for fun'?

I certainly have a chip on my shoulder about womens rights and sporting integrity being shat all over. The fact that you think this is a bad thing is on you.

I am saying that thsi could have happened with zero intention of harming or discriminating against anyone.

Well, it has. So now you know, what will you support?

I can't join the queue to want to burn her on the stakes for doing it.

I can't believe you use ridiculous language like this while accusing accusing people of reading stuff you never said into, er, stuff you clearly said.

Sports is sex segregated for a reason. No, it's not OK to tell women at the lower ends that they don't matter and the males have priority. That's not how sporting integrity works and it's not how you safeguard whichever tournaments have women that you think do matter.

If you didn't mean to suggest that males should have priority over females in female sports, now is your chance to realise that that is exactly what you suggested, even if you hadn't thought it through and didn't realise it. You can carry on carping at me because I annoyed you by answering back, or you can focus on the actual issue by reconsidering your view on the matter. It's about women's sports, not you.

Maybe we should just have 1 category of winner only - "the best person" - ie in this case - "the fastest person".

That will highlight to women that they simply are not as fast or strong as men and then perhaps they could focus on something they can be the best at. Or pursue something else - something extremely important such as raising the next generation. Not everyone has to try to be an athlete or the director of a big company.

Again, stop taking your anger out on me, or putting words into my mouth. Take your aggression elsewhere. And this:

now is your chance to realise that that is exactly what you suggested, even if you hadn't thought it through and didn't realise it.

I mean, honestly, what makes you think it's ok to speak down to people in this way. I have explained myself and told you exactly what I meant. Several times. Each time you have implied something into it that I neither said nor thought. And then you are going to give me a "chance" to correct myself, I mean wtf 😂To avoid confusion: I don't think women don't matter or males take priority. At any level. (there - did I use the one last chance you gave me in an acceptable way?) I am just saying I can see how this can have happened and why and if there was no ill intent then I can see how it has happened without having anything to do with discrimination.

Although yes @MetalFences I agree that the proper thing to do would have been to not accept the medal. In fact, that does go back to my point of intent - by accepting the medal it suggests that perhaps this wasn't just a question of wanting to (1) join in and (2) use their identifying gender.

I don't think women don't matter or males take priority. At any level.

How about park runs?

Even at park runs. And nothing I have said is contrary to that.

Like I said, you have completely misinterpreted what I said. I have explained several times. Each time you have been aggressive and patronising. So, I hope you will understand, I don't fancy explaining again.

So you don't agree with allowing male born people to compete against women at park runs.

Why, then, do you think the backlash is unfair?

For the last time, because I can see how it happens with no ill intent. Because when someone is signing up for parkrun they are just as perhaps just registering the information they are asked for so they can take part, and not plotting some underhand attempt to get ahead of all those pesky women and beat their records. In that particular context (the contet I made clear in my very first post) I don't think they deserve to be accused of discrimination.

Although, saying that, I am being accused of hating women and wanting to impose discriminatory standards on them all just for posting on MN with that opinion so perhaps my bar for what makes people deserve the wrath of the likes of you isn't aligned with reality. You'll probably give me one last patronising chance to go away and think about that though, so perhaps that's what I'll do.

The runner referred to in the OP doesn’t just do parkruns - they have won the women’s category in several actual races. Before transitioning they were a good standard mens club runner.

What else were they supposed to do???
Run as a male since they are a male.

For the last time, because I can see how it happens with no ill intent.

This doesn't mitigate the actual ill effect for women.

What kind of backlash against this clear injustice would be acceptable?

Maybe everyone should bleat quietly and look away, what's the poor man that thinks he's a woman to do. Never mind the actual winning female.
I id as an intergalactic protruding flying apricot shaped chimpafoowarthog, where is my category? And who are you to tell me I'm not one?

This is why I think Sharron Davies' solution is a good one. Transwomen wouldn't have to make a clear statement that they're physically male, even though it's true, and it's not in any way "othering" because it's literally open to everyone. Any female bodied person who wanted to compete could do so too, including transmen who don't want to make a statement of being female born.

My dd had to stop playing football in year nine as there were so many boys in the opposing teams that she kept getting injured.

That was supposed to be just for fun too.

And 'only' grass roots football for children so that doesn't matter either.

If the person was already registered with parkrun before transitioning, they didn't have to change the gender on their record. That was an active choice.

Absolutely disgusting. All these ‘athletes’ who do this are nothing but cheats! I definitely will not recognise their ‘records’. This self identifying crap is ridiculous, to both biological women and real trans people who just want to get on with things and have never caused an issue. There seems to be this particular group squirming their way into society with what seems to be a sinister agenda.

This is the problem. ‘It’s ok when it’s
just . . . ‘. No. No It’s not. It’s cheating plain and simple. You have no right to assume why people run parkrun. Sport should be fair at ALL levels - not just the levels you think are ‘proper’ sport. This is the kind of crap which got us into this DoubleThink state in the first place.