Teacher telling 4 year old her work is *No good

[Itiswhatitisamilliontimes]

We live abroad, Dh and I are British but speak the language we reside in now, I’m not great, Dh speaks fluently.
Dd is 4 and has been at Pre school since September, she speaks a small amount, but not fluently yet.
Majority of people where we are speak English also, her teacher doesn’t really (obviously don’t expect her to speak English at all)
Dd came home upset today, she said she had painted her picture wrong and painted inside a heart instead of around it, but that she didn’t know. She said her teacher said to her it was No good and moved it out of the way, she said she didn’t shout it at her but didn’t let her do another etc. I asked my Dd what she did and she said she just sat there. She then said that she also did a picture of people wrong as she painted their faces black and the teacher also moved it and said it was *No good. Dd then said she drew the boy with a striped t-shirt and that it was okay and that wasn’t wrong.
From what I can gather, having seen todays display on the wall, it was a heart with a picture of your family inside, I guess Dd wasn’t meant to paint inside the heart as the picture was meant to be there and I’m guessing her painting the faces black was wrong, because we don’t have black skin.
Dd didn’t understand what to do, I realise it’s not the teachers fault she doesn’t speak English, but is saying that her pictures are no good and moving them the correct thing to do? Am I being over sensitive in feeling sad for Dd?
Also in her reports it’s says that Dd needs a lot of extra assistance with her work and can’t do things independently (at home she’s so good, really bright, confident and independent) I asked the teacher about it and I asked wasn’t that because she doesn’t speak the language fully yet, she looked embarrassed and said yes and now always writes this on her report.
Aibu to also expect her to be shown how to do things and to have help being taught her new language?

@Haywirecity This was just a craft/art lesson in class 🤷🏻‍♀️I don’t really have any idea what they do normally tbh

Having worked abroad myself and struggled with the language, I do think this is a language issue. I would just ask the teacher to double check that your DD has understood instructions for any tasks she is asked to do in future so it doesn't happen again.

You need to make a huge effort to fully immerse your child in the language she will need for school and socialising..

Your DH needs to start speaking to her in the language. You need to let her watch TV in the language, and you need to learn songs she can sing with you and DH in the language.

One phrase DD needs to be taught as a matter of urgency is, "I didn't understand what you said. Can you show me, please"

@mathanxiety We do that, but obviously not 24/7, lots of British people we know don’t speak the language or really have friends from the country (it’s a very ex pat area) we’re the exception to that…their children now speak fluently after attending school, so I’m confident that she will be fluent with more time, but she does also need help at school with it surely 🤷🏻‍♀️

@mathanxiety Very good point, we will teach her this weekend and go through it with her

Are there many children / people in the area new to the language ? We get so much training on working with children who have English as an additional language but I wonder if in some places they just have no clue ? I would mention it because if they don't speak the same language your daughter won't be able to let her know she was confused and sad she didn't know what to do.

Is it spain? My friends kids had trouble in Spanish schools 😑

Who tells a 4 year old that their picture is not good? A teacher who doesn't speak English remotely well.

It's ridiculous to expect someone who's English is very poor to be able to communicate sensitively with a four year old who doesn't speak her language at all. I travel a lot, and when people whose English is quite poor (or even fair) speak to me, they often sound quite abrupt. Because they only have a very basic vocabulary.

I speak a little French, so if a french child with no English apart from greetings, colours and numbers was in my class and didn'get something right, I simply wouldn't have the vocabulary to explain what had gone wrong in a gentle way.

So you'd think a teacher in the UK is a rubbish teacher because she can't speak the language of a child who doesn't speak English?

I had a child in my class who came straight here from China with not a word of English. She was 11. I didn't know where to start. I couldn't even have said good, or not good.

You can't judge a teacher for not being able to communicate sensitively in another language

In lots of countries in the EU there isnt the same ultra nurturing approach which you will find in UK nurseries and primary school- this can be a shock to expat UK parents.
I worked in a UK nursery in the preschool room where we always had to use positive guidance - even if the children were behaving really badly) I am a foreigner and I agree that nursery in other countries ( particularly France ) are more strict with a tough love approach and will tell children off for not following instructions whereas in the UK we value" childrens work" more than anything which is wonderful.
I agree more with the UK style although

@saraclara She could have physically showed my Dd fairly easily, she would point, show her, do a version herself, use Portuguese, Dd understands the colours etc and is bright, it can be done.
I’m an ex class teacher myself and have taught children from different nationalities.

They'll have lesson plans for everything they do. It'll contain what the children are to do in each lesson. Most won't be necessary for you. But you could ask to see any in which the teacher thinks she'll be working independently,

Just an idea. I teach EFL so I meet lots of children of new arrivals. She'll pick up the language amazingly quickly so these problems are really very short lived. Start speaking the language at home. It will help improve yours too. (Tell your husband NOT to correct every mistake! 🙄😄)

Find a babysitter, student that will do activities with your child in the local language. The understanding will be fast. Perhaps ask the teacher what topics and activities they’ll be doing the next weeks and ask the babysitter/student to do this with your child.

I agree completely with this! The nurturing at primary is second to none. I had a polish teacher once who described a child as not being stupid. To her it was praise to the parents it was weeks of repairing a relationship!!

My ds is 11 and remembers his teacher ripping his work up and binning it when he was 4.

People don't realise that kids can and do remember when things like this are said to them.

I'd just mention to the teacher on Monday that DD was upset and didn't understand the instructions.

You're going to get loads of responses telling you the teacher is an evil witch and you should change schools, but no teacher is perfect.

The teacher didn't handle it well, your DD may not be remembering or communicating to you the exact nuances of what happened.
Just speak to the teacher.

Hmm. I agree that the teacher could make more effort to be a bit more nurturing or at least more encouraging.
However another thing to consider OP is what sort of reactions do you think would help your child to develop resilience? If by any chance your child fails to achieve something, either because of the teacher not taking enough care or even just because your child doesn’t quite get it, do you think it helps your child if you or she think of this as a disaster?
Stop worrying about the teacher not being perfect. Just let your child develop her language skills, and think about your home environment and how you model recovering from mistakes, having another go, not getting too upset over little things, some people like one picture but other people may prefer a different one etc.

@JussathoB Yes, we do that naturally but I still don’t expect a teacher to say a 4 year olds work is no good and leave it at that

You don't actually know what happened though - you are relying on a 4 year old's recollection of what happened in a language she doesn't understand well.
Even when pre-schoolers are in their native language environment, what actually happened and how they have interpreted/remembered it is not always very similar.

Well it matters because ‘no good’ in English sounds harsh, but in another language it might be the way the concept of ‘not what was expected’ is expressed. So much nuance can be lost in translation that it’s impossible to say if the teacher was wrong or not.

When I was 5 I had very neat handwriting but could not draw. There was going to be a Parents Evening. We all had a sheet of paper with lines on the bottom to write a story on and the top of the page was blank to draw on. I did a picture then wrote a story underneath. The teacher cut my picture of whilst telling me it was not going on her wall. She then cut off a boy's handwriting telling him it could not be read. She then stuck his picture on the wall and pinned my hand writing underneath it. The picture was of a rocket and the story about a witch. I was hoping things were different in primary schools nowadays. I didn't really care but I remember my Mum was furious my picture was not allowed on the wall and the boy who's writing was not put up got told off by his parents for not trying harder. I can remember feeling sorry for him.

I think by sending your child to a class that isn't second language provision without having got her set up with more than the basics of the local language you have set her up to fail and need to take some responsibility for that, not be expecting the school to teach her unless teaching the language to international students is something they specifically offer - which most pre-schools don't.
It's not a pre-school's job to teach her the language and expecting your child to just pick it up passively will not equip her in a timely manner for handling the situation you've put her in of being in a classroom that operates in a language she doesn't know.
If it isn't a language teaching preschool or ex-pat schooling situation, then a pre-school teacher almost certainly won't have the training for teaching children who don't have a reasonable grasp of the local language. If they don't speak each other's lanuage then it's no suprise there is difficulty when trying to convey your child hasn't competed the activity correctly, but it's unfair to say the teacher is unreasonable for not being conversant in your child's language when you are the one that decided to put your child in a classroom where she doesn't speak the language the class works in.

I think your DH needs to step up much more in all of this.

I agree that the interaction shouldn’t have happened the way it did. I would probably mention to the teacher that it made your daughter upset.

But your husband really needs to spend much more time focusing on language with her. Frankly it’s a great shame that he didn’t speak his language to her from the beginning because then you wouldn’t be in this position now.

it's unfair to say the teacher is unreasonable for not being conversant in your child's language when you are the one that decided to put your child in a classroom where she doesn't speak the language the class works in.

...And where the teacher doesn't speak the child's language either (beyond the very basic).

To be honest, I wouldn't dream of putting my four year old in this situation. It must be anxiety inducing to be in a situation all day where you can neither understand or be understood.

@saraclara Some of the assistants speak English, it’s a nerve wracking thing, but a very normal thing to do where I am. It feels horrendous at first as though we were throwing her in at the deep end, but it’s apparently the way to do it. My Dd has a native speaking babysitter, lots of friends who speak the language and us also.
It isn’t Dh’s language, we are both British, but he has learnt the language and is now fluent