to think of suing LA for SEN school fees when they eventually give DC an ECHP?

[ehcpnightmares]

DC 13 in state school which is not going well at all
He definitely meets criteria for EHCP but LA refusing to assess (we have appealed)
We can pay school fees for a couple of years (if we can find one that fits him with a place)
Hopefully in the future LA will pay school fees, but wondering if we'd be able to reclaim the fees for the next year, given they had no good reason to delay ECHNA?

Whereabouts in the country are you, OP?

Ah, probably a bit too far away. Had a school possibly in mind. Will PM you.

Not necessarily true. DD1 was 14 when she was awarded her EHCP and independent special school place, and 15 (just) when they agreed to pay for an extra year to allow her to repeat year 10.

It's really difficult and empathise with you. LA conceded the day before hearing just a fortnight ago for us, they made no case and offered no evidence but benefitted by making no provision during the ten month wait for a hearing. Although they haven't really benefitted at all as they refused the small EOTAS package I requested then conceded to one costing four times as much ten months later so will now be funding the equivalent to the independent specialist school fees dd previously attended.
Be prepared for the long haul, you may well have to appeal at each stage. You will definitely need to appeal the final EHCP issued as it won't be fit for purpose and may well name the current school that has said it can't meet needs as they do it all the time. Get the evidence, independent ed psych, SALT and OT reports are vital IME and consider a solicitor or advocate to handle Tribunal. I've used both (appealed three times now) and have recommendations if you want them.

We appealed for my son’s college place. He’s had a statement/EHCP since he was 4. The LA had no case, never submitted any evidence, and conceded 2 weeks before tribunal. We spent 10’s of thousands on professional reports and legal fees. Our solicitor told it was pointless trying to reclaim any of our costs from the LA. I imagine in your case the advice would be the same.

oh, i just saw this https://chng.it/9DPWDcWVBY

Is there a local state mainstream that would allow the number of subjects to be dropped? May be worth changing while appealing ehcp?

OP:

Why haven't you mentioned an LA EP? Surely if the school doesn't feel they can meet his needs to the point they are suggesting specialist then he should be a priority for their EP time? For an ehcp to be issued, the LA needs to consider whether the needs are outside what a school could reasonably be expected to support, and whether the school has coordinated advice and support (see image).

You say his current school cannot reduce his number of GCSEs. Bollocks they can't (sorry, schools annoy me with this stuff). They choose not to because it will damage their progress 8 scores, whereas if your boy toddles off elsewhere their 10 GcSEs apiece cohort will be intact. Write to the SEN governor requesting that he be allowed a reduced GCSE timetable, dropping, say, history, MFL, RE and taking Eng Lit and Lang, combined science and maths. With access to the SEN dept to consolidate his learning in his "free" periods.

Keep up the EHCNA assessment request but don't assume it's only the LA playing silly buggers, schools are more than capable of wide -eyed disingenuousness about their legal duty.

@AlantheDog that's interesting, i'm not sure how these things are calculated but the school has a v high Progress 8 score (>0.8)

I assumed they were refusing to reduce the number of subjects he studies because of the cost of supervision if not in timetabled classes

We do have a report from the school EP but they couldn't do formal assessments because ds's anxiety level was too high (!) We went through all the recommendations line by line in our appeal doc outlining why they are not enough and how some will actually reduce changes of academic success (not that its the main problem for us, but i think it is for LA and SEND law)

@AlantheDog at this stage (refusal to assess) the LA only need to consider whether the child has or may have SEN, and whether provision may need to be made through a Plan. The bar is very low. The EP comes in at the 'yes we must assess' stage.

@ehcpnightmares have you done a Subject Access Request? It will give you all the (redacted) internal emails with evidence of what the school has been discussing about your DS, etc., which can be fantastic evidence.

@AlantheDog You say his current school cannot reduce his number of GCSEs. Bollocks they can't (sorry, schools annoy me with this stuff). They choose not to because it will damage their progress 8 scores, whereas if your boy toddles off elsewhere their 10 GcSEs apiece cohort will be intact. Write to the SEN governor requesting that he be allowed a reduced GCSE timetable, dropping, say, history, MFL, RE and taking Eng Lit and Lang, combined science and maths. With access to the SEN dept to consolidate his learning in his "free" periods - this is wise.

Pretty much any school can do this.
All the schools we looked at had an SEN room where kids who couldn't deal with being in the classroom could withdraw to and work quietly. My own DC tends to spend at least one period a day there on average - I don't know if schools exist that don't have such a facility but it would be highly discriminatory not to have any kind of provision like this. It must be all about the statistics.

If your child could cope with the academic curriculum at their current school if they could reduce to 5 subjects then that will be a better solution than moving schools. The school may need to be forced to put the child's best interests over their own statistics but that will be a much easier fight to win than getting a place in a specialist school.

@Lougle
I am an EP.
We hate it when we get called in only after statutory assessment has been agreed. It is absolutely not best practice. Yes we must be involved during EHCNA, but if schools have done their job properly vis a vis the CoP we should be involved beforehand. The code recommends a graduated response via APDR.

It's possible you live in an area where your EP service has been cut back so much that all the LA EPs do is one-off assessments for children where EHCNA has already been agreed, but that isn't the best way of working for anyone concerned.

It isn't best practice but I also can't stand it when posters (generally, not you) tell parents that they will fail in getting an EHCNA because they haven't got the evidence from an EP. If the school can't/won't buy EP time, then the parent is stuck.

I also think EPs should be banned from using 'access to', 'as the opportunity/need arises', 'up to' and all the other vague terms that allow LAs to completely ignore recommendations. The SEN COP is very clear that provision should be SMART. It's tedious.

It isn't best practice but I also can't stand it when posters (generally, not you) tell parents that they will fail in getting an EHCNA because they haven't got the evidence from an EP. If the school can't/won't buy EP time, then the parent is stuck.

I also think EPs should be banned from using 'access to', 'as the opportunity/need arises', 'up to' and all the other vague terms that allow LAs to completely ignore recommendations. The SEN COP is very clear that provision should be SMART. It's tedious.

Final paragraph: agreed. However ironically, doing a one off EHCNA assessment reduces our certainty about recommendations. It's much harder to be certain whether this YP will need 30 min twice a week of a certain intervention, or 10-15 mins a day, or an hour a week, for example, when I only got to see them once for an hour and a half - compared with if I have had the chance to support them and the school over a couple of APDR cycles, honing the support and monitoring how the young person gets on.

I mean I try hard to specify and quantify but it's much more "make an educated guess" in cases where I am called in AFTER EHCNA has been agreed. I genuinely think the EHCPs produced are worse for it.

I think there should be much more pressure on (all, as many already do this) schools to follow C of P and do their statutory duty by their children.

It might be worth looking at other mainstream state schools to see if any have a more constructive attitude.

DD's school allows pupils to drop one subject and do 'Core support' in that slot - additional teaching in English and Maths - without any drama. Further subjects can be dropped, but that is more of a process because obviously there needs to be somewhere for them to go during the time others are in class.

Plus they have a quiet room where those who need it (e.g. DD) can go if they are overwhelmed by the class situation, they have support to self-regulate and then do their work in the quiet room.

So depending on your DS's need there maybe some mainstream state schools that could meet his needs.

I just want to wish you well OP. I have been in a similar situation.
DS has had an EHCP for years but where it was clear that mainstream was no longer working - years 7/8 - I really had to fight to get a specialist independent named.
We planned to pay ourselves from the start of year 9 but the LA conceded during the summer holiday. The fees were ‘only’ 18K per year so not all specialist independent schools cost a fortune.

Hi @Lougle
Can I please ask, in our case, do you think it’s worth me emailing the EP to take another look at DS’ section f because what she has written isn’t SMART and she hasn’t taken enough account of her own professional opinion to fully reflect in section f? Or would I be wasting my time?
I’d really appreciate your thoughts.
Thanks.

Would he at least go and look at them with you,

@MummyJ12 i know people who have done that, sometimes it’s worthwhile and changes are made.

Thank you @Butterflybutterflies 🤞🏼

Appreciate that it would make it much more difficult to be confident about recommendations when it is a one-off assessment but in the nicest possible way it is the worse of all words when vague language is used but the child is highly likely to end up with pretty much nothing at all.

You will have to go to tribunal if you want specialist indi. You should have private EP, SALT and OT reports. Including EP and SALT assessment of LA named placement. All experts should be tribunal 'certified'. You should be represented at hearing.

The judge will seriously take into consideration if your child is currently out of education but willing to try to attend new setting if new setting can provide a different environment (like small school/small classes/SALT and OT onsite)) that LA placement can't provide.

No guarantee of success but worth a shot.

OT can also provide a report of LA named placement in terms of sensory load.