to think of suing LA for SEN school fees when they eventually give DC an ECHP?

[ehcpnightmares]

DC 13 in state school which is not going well at all
He definitely meets criteria for EHCP but LA refusing to assess (we have appealed)
We can pay school fees for a couple of years (if we can find one that fits him with a place)
Hopefully in the future LA will pay school fees, but wondering if we'd be able to reclaim the fees for the next year, given they had no good reason to delay ECHNA?

Even if you get the EHCP it does not mean you will get a SN school. They might just make some provision in the school the child is already in unless very severe. My Foster son went to a SN school and the children had to have moderate to sever learning disabilities eg IQ under 75 to attend.

Go to all the SeND charities and first thing to know is that the current school/LA have to do everything they can to avoid paying for any specialist provision. Ignore posters who argue that you are taking resources. SEND money is supposed to be ringfenced and handed down from central government.
We didn’t get money back except for a week or so to cover from start of a half term to the day the EHC plan was actually signed off - LA tried not to pay that but too but relented after an argument ie me threatening to push for judicial review and that court would cost more.
We got a small amount of compensation from LGO but equivalent of paying for private Ed psych, so not much in scheme of things.
It was expensive but worth it as DD had been out of school for a year and when LA’s Ed psych visited she basically said she had no evidence to counter that placement was appropriate and LA had nothing equivalent to offer.
Be prepared to fight incredibly hard, get very stressed and spend some money - assessments, courses, time off work - but my DD is now about to sit her finals at uni so it is very much worth it. My main aim was for her to be able to function independently and be able to get a job, but the right school did an amazing amount

If you have some money consider getting a SN tutor. We found an excellent one who managed to teach DC more in 3 hours each week than he learned in the entire week of school. Because he was quiet and well behaved he got overlooked and all resources seemed to go on badly behaved violent and aggressive children who on were allocated a 1-1 helper to stop them attacking other children.

OP : raise merry hell. Complain complain complain. They automatically refuse to assess everyone. We went mad when we got that stupid letter and didn't let it go. We are now getting DS assessed without even going to the tribunal; the LA agreed to overturn it after we re- sent a shedload of evidence and told them they were acting unlawfully by ignoring the clear needs of our child. Ring, email, ring, email. Demand they explain their decision (they can't). Complaining works and keep doing it!!

we're in London and there are at least a couple of special schools that cater for children capable of passing GCSEs/BTECx but with SEND issues that mean they can't succeed in mainstream schools. I'm sure there's loads of competition for spaces but we can at least try.

I have found two schools who, while most of their pupils have EHCP's, they could allow a privately funded place too. Yes it is horribly expensive.

@gogohmm i am aware that chances are slim, but feel like i have to aim for the best. Did your DD learn well in isolation without a teacher? I'm not sure DS would manage it. My actual preference would be for him to be in a special state school and there's an ideal one really quite close. You can't access those at all without an EHCP though.

@Sirzy from what i hear mediation rarely goes that well. I am still trying to engage with the LA now while we wait for the appeal to be processed but its really hard getting a response from them.

@Spendonsend thanks for that suggestion of doing a second ehcp request. i had not considered that. I am expecting a new OT report and some other new info. I guess there's nothing to stop me doing a new request while the last one sits in the appeal queue

Sue them? Why would any court give you the money? That would just give the green light to any other parent wanting to do the same.

Also, you can’t go to a specialist school without an EHCP in place first.

You’ll probably just have to wait your turn like everyone else I’m afraid. I know it’s so shit, try and look for support outside school and keep advocating for your DC. Sorry this is hard for you.

Good luck.

@Tygertiger i refuse to do EHE - that literally involves legally signing away any responsibility that the LA to provide education, health and social care etc. I'm sure that's exactly what LA want. Anyway, it's important for DS to build relationships outside family, being home alone will not help.

There are other kinds of alternative education provision that the LA can offer. I'm chasing those too. Current setting is doing DS more harm that good and I have that in writing from several professionals involved.

The thing is that the decision about whether to assess is a legal judgement and the LA is entirely allowed to deem that DC has not meet the legal test. You would presumably need to prove that the LA acted illegally in how it reached that conclusion via JR. And also that what you child requires is the school of your choice despite the statutory assessment process having not taken place at the time you started incurring the fees. The SENCO saying that the school cannot meet needs doesn't mean that a specialist school is required, versus say other less expensive special educational provision.

@OneTwoThreeFourFiveOnceI as far as I can tell this is the legal test for qualifying for an EHCNA is set out in section 36(8) of the Children and Families Act 2014.

If a local authority (“LA”) is requested to carry out an EHC needs assessment by a parent, young person, school or college, they must consider:

whether the child or young person has or may have special educational needs (“SEN”); and
whether they may need special educational provision to be made through an EHC plan.
If the answer to both of these questions is yes, they must carry out an EHC needs assessment.

It's a low bar. There's not good reason for an LA to refuse when these criteria have been met

The situation is difficult/impossible for all young people requiring additional support. My DD has a diagnosis and an EHCP and we have had to fight every inch of the way. You say school 'isn't going well' - that's a bit vague but you have every right not to share. I guess your son is going into year 10 in September and you think that he will struggle. Unfortunately I the LA will think this is all a bit late and will stall. If he is happy at school I would get him supported outside school rather than putting funds into an independent school. My DD has direct experience of SN provision - contrary to what you might read on MN it isn't always the magic answer - choose very carefully. Finally people are recommending SENDIASS - just don't (all employees of the LA).

Are there any other state schools near you (or even not near you?) that are worth trying? As you’re obviously aware, getting the EHCP is going to be difficult, and even if you get it, it doesn’t guarantee the school you want. If you have funds available for specialist private school, could you consider using that money to relocate instead?

@MillieMollieMandy1 he is really not happy at all at school. it's wearing him down and he's mentally ill now with anxiety on top of all the ND issues and learning difficulties. He's in year 8. Lots of children have difficulties that only become apparent when they start secondary school. He's one of them. It's taken 18 months to get diagnosis, and gather enough evidence for an ehcp request.

I do understand appreciate special schools aren't all great!

I didn't have much luck with SENDIAS either. SOSSEN/IPSEA are great though. Actually some of the best tips i've had are from mumsnet. There are some great people on here who really know SEN, and offer an out of hours service ;)

In year 8 realistically the chances of getting an ehcp and being accepted into an independent specialist school intime to start gcse syllabus is slim.

have you looked at other mainstream options locally to see if they can better meet his needs? Not all mainstream (or specialist!) schools are made the same

@Sirzy he won't consider them. i think we're headed for school refusal
I am not sure he can go back after half term, never mind in september

If DS can’t attend school the LA must provide alternative arrangements to provide him with a suitable, full time education. You can force them to if they refuse.

If you secure an EHCP the good thing is it can continue until 25, or 26 in some circumstances, so even if DS doesn’t complete GCSEs at the typical time they can be sat later.

I'd like to get a better understanding of what you are aiming for @ehcpnightmares

Near to us there are:
A couple of different private SEN schools where there are about 6 kids to a class, very high adult to child ratio and highly personalised curriculum. In one of these the kids typically come out with no qualifications at all, or perhaps some functional skills certificates, but the focus of the educational effort is entirely on helping them to cope with the basic complexities of life, not getting qualified. At the other there is a bit more academic content in the curriculum and some of the kids do manage to get 5 passes at GCSE with a curriculum that just has 5 subjects of study - no where near a mainstream timetable.

• these schools are both massively full and oversubscribed with many more children needing them than could possibly be helped. Theoretically there could be self-funded pupils without an EHCP there - the fees are around £80,000 per year, due to the very high resources needed, but in reality when places are available the school will always offer the places to the state-funded pupils with and EHCP whose needs have been assessed, rather than a pupil whose parents want them to go there but who have not been through that process.

There is also a really nice, nurturing and non academically selective private school which has a "middle school" for years 4-8 and a main senior school that starts from year 9. Class sizes are about 22-24. a lot of the pupils have no SEN and are just from wealthy families but not likely to pass rigorous entrance exams, but every year they intake a significant number of "refugees" from the state system into their year 9 - enough that there are additional classes added to the cohort for year 9 compared to year 8. The education is mainstream, full curriculum but without the pressure to perform that there would be at an academic mainstream private school, and they get good GCSE results- not stellar, but decent. I don't think there are any pupils there who are state-funded to be there though, or if there are it would be a temporary arrangement for someone who really needed one of the SEN schools while they waited for a space. But fees there are only around £20,000 per year so you could do the whole of y9-y13 for not much more than the cost of one year at an SEN specialist.

There are also a few normally academically selective private schools, offering a very challenging curriculum and mostly full of very academically able children without SEN but some do have a few pupils with EHCPs who named that school as the only one that could meet their needs.

Which of these very different kinds of private schools are you talking about for your DC? And whereabouts in the country are you?

Excellent post @ArdeteiMasazxu This is what I meant too, but you said it much better.

OP, think very carefully about what would really work for your son and then focus on finding that, with or without the EHCP. Specialist schools aren’t necessarily what you expect them to be (ie not specialist for your son if that makes sense?) The fact that you can afford private will open more options for you, but there are also some excellent state schools that might meet his needs better than his current one.

Exactly. Not all schools are made equal.

i was sure Ds would need a specialist school for secondary but when I visited all the local options (including an independent one) I realised that they wouldn’t be right for him. He is now in a reasonably small mainstream with full 1-1 and he is thriving as it’s the right setting for him with the right support

@ArdeteiMasazxu I'm looking for a school that would do about 5 subjects at gcse/btec levels. Current school can't reduce the number of subjects and he can't keep up with them all. He could do well at 5 or 6 I think. Also looking for smaller classes or individualised tuition. There are some people in some of his classes in current school with 1:1 support but apparently they're mostly reminding the children they're supporting to sit still etc. DS needs something closer actual 1:1 tuition to make sure he's processing the content of lesson.

Also needs really specialised SALT and maybe OT too, but not ABA type training.

I am also looking at tutors at home (LA funded and otherwise) but with full blown GAD levels of anxiety, complete social withdrawal and isolation already i don't think its best for him, as an only child, long term.

I have seen a couple of schools that offer that on paper, and nice nurturing inclusive environments that would offer all that. I have seen school fees presented at a couple closer to 40-50k. It would involve an hour travel in each direction so commute not ideal. Fees are not really sustainable for us longterm, but possible in short term.

I agree with others that it’s one long haul of many fights.
We had to fight DS’ school to put the RSA in, they said we wouldn’t be successful. We were, they assessed and we were given the go ahead for an EHCP about 4 weeks ago.
The school are now saying that they’re able to meet his needs, even though they’re clearly not as DS’ mental health is deteriorating further. CAMHS have helped as much as they can but even a letter from his psychiatrist saying that specialist provision is the only way forward. They won’t accept because it’s not from the EP and not in the remit of his mental health care team.
The EP report stated that
-He is struggling to attend and remain in lessons (because he is becoming overwhelmed as he did in the observation lesson). It is also noted that he finds the complexities of school life significantly overwhelming and anxiety producing.
-His mental health needs are having a significant impact on his ability to access the curriculum.
There is no reflection of this on his section F. It’s a complete farce. (A doodle book FFS!) Section F is a complete farce, it’s in any way specific, quantifiable or enforceable.
I’m currently fighting it at draft stage but it’s hard. I wish we had gotten a private EP report done.
SOS!SEN have been brilliant.
CAMHS have been brilliant (we’re lucky)
The LA are awful.
We’re going to end up at tribunal.

Not in any way I meant to put with regards section f. Sorry! I’m so tired I can’t type a post properly nowadays!

@MummyJ12 situation sounds very similar but what does RSA stand for?

I think it is actually really hard to get a private Educational Psychologist report. I've yet to find one with availability anytime soon. I haven't even managed to join a waiting list.

RSA is a Request for Statutory Assessment, it’s the form that DS’ school used when they had their arm twisted following DS’ suicide attempt and CAMHS again got involved and said in a letter copied to the school that the process should look at being started. I had to go in and fill the form out with the SENCO because they were so reluctant. They said that they were giving him all the support they could, which makes me more cross that they’re now claiming that they can meet his needs.

I’ve heard about the long wait times for a private EP, it’s indicative of the sea of additional need out there. Along with a broken and under funded system. Unfortunately though LA EPs have pressure put on them by the sound of it to be vague and non specific so provision is then limited. DS’ draft EHCP states currently in section f “embedded in education”. It means nothing and like a pp said, it’s not worth the paper it’s written on.