To be upset about ‘university blind’ recruitment

[Newname576]

DS has overcome so many challenges and has an unconditional offer from Cambridge after achieving 4 A star last year. He has worked so hard and we are so proud of him! But I was upset to learn that so many companies are recruiting “university blind”now - what the hell is the point of going to a top Uni if no one will know about it! My younger child says she will apply to Manchester Met and have a ball even though she too is predicted stellar grades as there is no point going to a top Uni

AIBU to be sad that companies are recruiting blind?

Blind recruiting will help any Oxbridge candidate as they won't be getting the role because of privilege, they will be there with talent
Agree with this.

If someone is an exceptional candidate, has a high level of academic ability, and a wide range of relevant soft skills why would they be concerned about the recruitment panel seeing 'Oxford/Cambridge' on the form?

The idea that strong, rounded candidates from Oxbridge are going to lose out to a graduate from low ranking, educationally poor BloggsTown University who is academically weak with low soft skills, and no experience is highly, highly unlikely. They might find that university blind applications mean they aren't automatically and unfairly elevated above other academically strong, rounded candidates from other good universities based on the university name doing some heavy lifting without the evidence though, but is that a bad thing?

• typo If someone is an exceptional candidate, has a high level of academic ability, and a wide range of relevant soft skills why would they be concerned about the recruitment panel NOT seeing 'Oxford/Cambridge' on the form?

It’s the connections that he will make where he will learn about top jobs not yet advertised and such that will help. I wouldn’t worry too much.

@Newname576

It's ridiculous what some people are saying.
I have a Third Class Science degree from the University of Bristol.
I have a First Class Science degree from the Open University.

I didn't suddenly become smarter between the two degrees. One was too difficult for me, the other really easy. Depending on the University, the level of difficulty varies widely.

People want to believe a "a first is a first", but I have a first, and from my experience my first is worth the same as a third from the UoB.

I knew a woman with a 2:2 in languages, she had to translate both directions, from Italian to English and vice versa. Her friend, studying the same languages at a different (ex-poly) uni, only had to translate FROM Italian into English, and got a 2:1.

Because a 2:1 is higher than a 2:2, when both completed law conversion degree's, the girl with the 2:1 in an effectively easier degree got recruited far easier.

While it's true that traditional unis aren't the top for everything (both MMU and University of West England have some brilliant tailered to work degree's, and for creative writing University of East Anglia is the place to go), I do agree that your son is being wrong footed.

What I can say that will cheer you up though is that, apparently (according to my husband) here in Japan some companies tried this blind recruitment thing already, and it failed. People from the top-tier universities interviewed better, showed a wider range of skills and secured the better jobs. So they scrapped it. x

I agree 100% with regard to name blind recruitment - DS also has an ethnic minority name. But posters on this thread saying that a 2.1 from bottom of table uni X is the same as a 2.1 from Cambridge is complete nonsense!

But blind recruitment isn't a pick and mix where you choose the components that most benefit you. It levels the playing field for everyone in the same way.

As does targeted recruitment. My son wants to go into management consultancy and the only available holiday programs this year (and last year) were open only to woman and black people. Slightly bizarrely, they encouraged him (he's neither) to apply but he felt it would be inappropriate.

My son is white and from a private school. I accept, for some things such as recruitment, that may stack the odds against him and I'm aware he's had the benefit of other advantages. The Oxbridge and Durham offer rate was at its lower level by far at our school last year (and the majority of our pupils are from ethnic minorities).

It's also not the done thing to slate other universities. You mention Durham as one of the unis where the degrees are well-respected but my son hasn't had to work particularly hard this year. He's just had three online 24/48 hour exams this term and is now enjoying the social side. So a student from your so-called 'Lesser Uni of X' may well be able to demonstrate higher academic achievement than my son's degree from Durham.

You sound awful. Clearly don’t have much confidence your child will do well enough on their own, you were banking on Cambridge opening the doors instead? You should be pleased that ‘blind’ applications make it fairer for people from all backgrounds, but now that your son has a ‘privilege’ you want to use that. How ironic.
ps getting accepted into Cambridge and actually graduating from Cambridge are too very different things. I wouldn’t count your chickens before they hatch - or you might have to face up to your unpleasant thoughts about ‘lesser’ universities sooner rather than later

@BetterFuture1985

This is funny - how many of us have 1sts from the OU? lol
I'm arguying that OU was way easier than my Russel Group degree though........

The contradictions in your post are funny. If everyone knows an Oxbridge degree is worth more than why would your friend with a 2:1 be considered better than someone with a 2:2?

The blind recruitment DID work as those who interviewed best for the job got it. In this case it seems it was top tier Uni’s although Japan is hardly a use case for diversity in any shape or form.

Spot on

Never mind OP as long as he sucks up to the right people whilst he's there and joins the right groups his Cambridge chums will always be there in British society to prop open doors for him and give him a leg up.

Good. Might stop the jobs for mates, mummy’s friend etc. sounds 100% fair and inclusive.

Just because your son is going to Oxbridge doesn't make him a better candidate for a role than someone who went elsewhere and quite frankly I'm glad that recruiters are using this option to level the playing field to find outstanding candidates who haven't gone to a select few elitist establishments.

@Digitallis At that time, already 1/3 of companies were already hiring based on degree grade only.

We currently have a young man in our team who has an Oxbridge degree. He regularly turns up late and takes long lunches, he does half as much work as his non-Oxbridge colleagues, and lies blatantly whenever called out. His manager has done her best in terms of explaining to him that he is in danger of not passing probation, making allowances, agreeing an improvement plan, etc and her reward was to be the subject of a personal complaint. His colleagues hate working with him because he is blatantly taking the piss.

University-blind recruiting would probably help Oxbridge candidates in our team, because following this experience no-one is remotely keen.

Are the establishments really elitist if they assess applicants holistically and on merit and engage in widening participation? Unlike the USA you can't pay your way to get in.

@Digitallis

Are you willyfully missing the point that I have done BOTH degrees.

I got a 3rd class degree from the University of Bristol because it was HARD.

I got a 1st class degree from the Open University because it was EASY.

Both science. I literally have done both, my degree with the Open University was way, way, way easier than the University of Bristol Degree.

Mature students who study 30-60 credits at a time(max) while working full time should be getting 1sts or high 2:1s.

An oxbridge degree will still get you ahead in plenty of industries, mine included - which is not right - but if a non privileged kid had managed to get one I would want them to take full advantage of it. I would love to see less privileged people rising to the top in my industry, even things out a bit

I agree with this.

The numbers of people in politics, media, etc who all went to the same schools and universities is an absolute scandal.
I'm glad that things are being put into place to stop it.

And OP, you can't pick and choose just to suit your children. Blind in terms of name is OK but not university? Sounds extremely selfish.

Wow.

As someone studying for an OU science degree as a mature student, whilst working full time I find your comments offensive and untrue. My first year level general science module included quantum mechanics ffs!

I have a previous degree and an MA and the OU degree IS NOT EASIER!!

When the OU was set up the degrees were purposefully rigorous because there was a concern that some employers would have your ridiculous view.

You are wrong.

Lol, I did quantum mechanics in A level Physics and you think that is Uni level🥹

@PyjamaFan

Then why could I only achieve a third at the University of Bristol, but could easily get a first with the OU? If they're the same standard, I'd have 2 first class degree's, but a change from a 3rd to a 1st is telling

Also quantum mechanics isn't something I'd categorize as especially difficult for a science undergraduate

Lol, I did quantum mechanics in A level Physics and you think that is Uni level
I studied Romeo and Juliet at 14 and at undergraduate. 🤷‍♀️

Yes because reading and chatting about a teen romance is totally comparable to a science based on mathematics. 🤪

@Newname576 @Katesdeadbehindtheeyes
You are both missing the point.
It's not that a Cambridge degree is equal to a 'lower ranked' uni. Far from it.

But for most large graduate intakes, especially as your son is reading History, the quality of his degree does not matter. Soft skills are more important.

When you go for graduate schemes there are multiple rounds of online tests, interviews etc. People who pass those are deemed to have the necessary skills! E.g. you have to do a presentation when given a case study to read, write a written report under time pressure etc.

Now, as I have said elsewhere it's not true that recruiting is university blind, a prestigious degree still stands you in good stead abroad and with a lot of niche employers like boutique investment banks. And a lot of these still bother to visit only elite university campuses.

However... getting a job was NEVER 'just' about the degree. You might not realise this coming from a WC background but if you hadn't known, and your son had just focused on studying he might be at a disadvantage coming out the other end because he'd have nothing to say in competency based interviews. Someone with an Oxbridge first and no extracurriculars is less employable than someone from a lower ranked uni with loads of work experience.

Tell your son to focus on a job from day one, visit the career center, go to all the panel events, apply for Spring Weeks. And don't bother with a First over a 2:1 if it comes at the expense of good extracurriculars like being a club president , big volunteering project, etc.