To be upset about ‘university blind’ recruitment

[Newname576]

DS has overcome so many challenges and has an unconditional offer from Cambridge after achieving 4 A star last year. He has worked so hard and we are so proud of him! But I was upset to learn that so many companies are recruiting “university blind”now - what the hell is the point of going to a top Uni if no one will know about it! My younger child says she will apply to Manchester Met and have a ball even though she too is predicted stellar grades as there is no point going to a top Uni

AIBU to be sad that companies are recruiting blind?

Reading with intrigue

It's irrelevant that they're free.

My DS got 4A* and didn't get an interview at Cambridge. He has a 1st from a well respected RG uni and I am thrilled that the playing field is finally levelling. Some will judge your son for his uni, some will judge against it. That's life, and he needs to suck it up (as do you).

Grammar schools are selective and not available to everyone.

If you want to be really pedantic, technically they are. In the sense that anyone in England can apply to take an 11+ entry exam, wherever they live.

The issue is that because there aren't that many grammar schools, some also have a catchment area; others don't but of course you still have to be able to get to the school on a daily basis. So in practical terms they aren't available to everyone, but the exam is, iyswim.

I don't think you understand how university blind recruiting works. It is not based solely on interview - the interviewer will still know what qualifications the candidate has, they just won't know which university awarded the degree.

Yes I would hire based on the interview and portfolio. If I wanted someone with experience I would look at that too.
I only look at the University as in my profession the uni they attend determines whether they have followed a more scientific or design based degree in Architecture. Top Unis and others are not a merit in their own right.
Neither Oxford or Cambridge, for example, are any good at the moment for design based studies in Architecture.

However. We do not ask for school or Uni info on the application form. We request examples of their work ( for initial benefit of the doubt ) and if we re looking for post first degree student we set them a design test as part of the interview.
Anyone above that and its interview, experience, portfolio.

Not just university blind, but the civil service and some employers I work with do completely blind applications. Anything identifiable is removed, name, sex, age. Name of education places, even names of past employers and it just leaves skills and grades etc. It is working well, we are getting people much more suited to the jobs they apply for

For me it would depend on the job.

My worst school teacher was an Oxbridge grad. They were very clever and a nice person, but couldn't explain anything to a struggling student because it was all so obvious to them. My best teacher studied education at an ex-poly. I would happily recruit teachers university blind.

However, having studied at a top uni and a middle tier uni, the work and pressure at the top uni was in a completely different league. My sibling went to a lower tier uni, then a top tier uni and said the same. Getting a first from Oxbridge etc definitely says something to me about the person, which for some jobs might matter.

My degree from a top uni incidentally didn't get me my job. The middle tier uni course was well known in the industry I'm in and particularly sought after.

Not just university blind, but the civil service and some employers I work with do completely blind applications. Anything identifiable is removed, name, sex, age. Name of education places, even names of past employers and it just leaves skills and grades etc. It is working well, we are getting people much more suited to the jobs they apply for

That is fascinating.

There are a lot of assumptions on this thread. DS going to Cambridge has autism, went to a ‘requires improvement’ state school and had free school meals. He is BAME. He is very far from white, middle class privilege!

@Newname576 As someone who went to both University of Hertfordshire and Oxford, the only significant difference was that undergrads were expected to do more independent learning.
I hope your children aren’t snobs too.

The employer has their academic grades, just not the university. That stops hiring managers assuming that someone will be impressive and the right candidate simply because their education was at a certain university and it also stops that awful ‘old-boys network’ kind of favouritism which leads to businesses being run by people with broadly the same educational background and nowhere near enough diversity of experience. Blind recruitment is good news for the majority of very able young people who have lots to offer a workplace without them being rated heavily on what sort of privilege they’ve already been fortunate enough to experience.

I’d expect some of the responses to my post so far to be, ‘Privilege? My child wasn’t privileged and went to Oxford / Cambridge! That’s some sort of discrimination!’

I’ve been a teacher for twenty years and I’ve lost count of the number of staggeringly bright pupils I’ve known who didn’t go to Oxbridge. Most deserved a place entirely on their own merit, far more than pupils who also had the advantage of personal tutors / secondary schools with an ‘Oxbridge Advisor’ / parents or teachers who helped write their application forms or gave them practice interviews. It would make them no less valuable adults in the workplace.

Maybe your son had none of those things, but the simple truth is that very few pupils get into universities like Oxford or Cambridge without support and success already present in their lives, whereas Oxbridge graduates often expect doors to open for them as that’s what they are used to. Let them present themselves at interview and be judged as the people they are now.

Oh and I too am autistic.

Having been in the unique position of actually done both, I can tell you it's a load of cobblers.

What happened in the 1980s really isn't relevant to the conversation now. I was at Cambridge late 1980s, got over 70% average overall and was in top 10% of my year, but because of the way they calculated classes for my particular subject I got a 2:1. Today you and I would both have got a 1st!

He will benefit from the high quality education and work ethic required from Cambridge, he will benefit from being around a cohort of bright young people, he will benefit from a high employer presence at recruitment fairs etc. There is so much that an oxbridge education offers.

Also… institution blind recruitment tends to allow the best to flourish. Often there will still be a very high proportion of oxbridge grads that are successful even with institution-blind recruitment. The tutorial process prepares students well for lots of grad recruitment exercises….

I do agree with name blind recruitment. It makes much more sense than university blind because a) the person has no control over their name b) their name has no impact at all on their ability and c) it avoid racism and sexism coming into play.

A couple of years ago I taught two boys in the same class. Both incredibly intelligent, hard working and articulate. Both sporty, musical and dramatic. Both from affluent, supportive families. Both Black African. One was called a name on the same lines as Charles Brown. The other a name on the same lines as Oluwatoni Osuntogun. These two young men are now among the most privileged teenagers in the country. But, statistically, 'Charles' still has a distinct and unfair, racism based advantage over 'Oluwatoni'. Even though they are both Black.
(obviously these are not the students' real names, I've made them up! But one had a traditionally British name and one a traditionally Nigerian name).

My DS is applying to various charities at the moment.
Hes had the same.
Absolutely nothing allowed on the application that may identify you.
Even his name was coded on one application.
ie initials plus day and month of birth. Not even allowed to put year of birth to avoid age discrimination.
I think it’s brilliant.

Well we saw what a bunch of former Oxford students managed to do to this country…

Eh? How is working hard to get in to Oxford and working hard to get a first not a personal achievement?! They don't just dish out firsts to rich kids!

I don't know what all this networking stuff is. I went to a fancy school and a posh university and although I am presumed to have come out with some kind of network that is going to help me do, er, something, in fact I have just come out with a bunch of friends who all do completely different things from me and aren't any use at all in my career. I must have done it wrong.

Our charity does this HR vet all applications and whittle down to 8. Head of the department then invites four for interview. Sometimes it works, something you have to start again

Many People work hard. It’s not just those that get into RG / Oxbridge Unis.
Its not exclusive.
Many people don’t go to Uni. That doesn’t mean they are all lazy and incapable.