To be upset about ‘university blind’ recruitment

[Newname576]

DS has overcome so many challenges and has an unconditional offer from Cambridge after achieving 4 A star last year. He has worked so hard and we are so proud of him! But I was upset to learn that so many companies are recruiting “university blind”now - what the hell is the point of going to a top Uni if no one will know about it! My younger child says she will apply to Manchester Met and have a ball even though she too is predicted stellar grades as there is no point going to a top Uni

AIBU to be sad that companies are recruiting blind?

Can you manage google for yourself?

In Scotland there are no selective state schools; they are all Comprehensive.
DS1 went from Comp to Cambridge/. DS 4 applied to Cambridge and was offered a place; but chose Edinburgh instead .

From a financial POV, Cambridge was cheaper because the vast wealth of the university's endowments benefits undergrads in subsidised college accommodation, educational facilities etc, bursaries etc.

Can I respectfully disagree?! It is the opposite. My university told us: we do not give out firsts, because we need to keep our standards higher than Cambridge and Oxford. When I see people who have studied at Cambridge and Oxford, I actually feel sorry for them that their degrees were not as broad as ours. Having said that, I see them on places like the BBC! So it gives contacts, open doors, is prestigious in its own right. But for those of us "in the know", we know that a 1st from Cambridge does not mean all that much! The statistics recently were shocking, something like 40% of students at Cambridge got a first (and I think automatically get a masters after one year?). As I said, 0% of students at my university (on my course) got a first. What we have is reputation; Cambridge has everything else!

Your son will work far harder at Cambridge than the average student at bogstandard uni, and be stretched and challenged far more. If he’s an arts student, for example, he will be producing c. 2 essays a week and sitting mock exams at the beginning of every term. My friends at redbrick universities barely produced 2 essays a term and spent most of their degree sleeping and sitting around their flats watching tv and gossiping. He will be grilled on his research and thinking in weekly supervisions/tutorials on his own or with one other student. If your son applies for graduate schemes that assess using rigorous methods eg group discussions about a topic, written assessments and interviews, the excellent education offered to him at Cambridge will stand him in excellent stead for the application process and to progress in his career.

I don't know about Cambridge, but DN who was at Oxford under a similar system used to wonder what the hell he was paying for as tutorial time was so minimal. He ended up with a first, but it had very little to do with his tutors.

YANBU

Universities and specific courses at universities are not one and the same - they don't all attract the same calibre of student and they don't all turn out the same calibre of graduate.

It's not all about Oxford and Cambridge. Portsmouth University, for example, is poorly ranked (or used to be) but has an excellent, very well regarded (or used to be) Marine Biology course. A prospective employee who had done that course would probably be a better candidate for a job in that field than one who had been to Durham, York or other non coastal, very prestigious institutions. UAE is a fairly averagely regarded university but has the best Drama and Creative Writing Departments of the non vocational universities (or again, used to). Someone applying for a job in a creative field ought to be able to let their employer know that they went to UAE and their employer should want to know. I'm sure there are countless other examples like those two.

Course and University matter.

Yes, I can Google. But I was wondering what it said in the article, which was behind a paywall.

Maybe you could Google yourself some manners.

I find your tone very patronising, just because you have a PhD does not negate my lived experience which is ‘actual data’ (you know actual qualitative insights) and not ‘knows someone who knows someone’ as you incorrectly assumed.

All research has its limitations, are you aware of yours.

0% of students getting a first is surely an indication of a poor course and poor teaching? Not one bright and capable “great” student at your Uni? Statistically that is impossible.

No this is not what contextual admissions are.

Contextual admissions are to help the most disadvantaged state school pupils (so those from poorly performing schools, living in poor areas, on free school meals, young carers).
Contextual admissions do not give any advantage to an average state school pupil compared to a private school pupil.

I know what contextual admissions are.... I was giving a very brief, broad stroke answer to a question about taking into account a student's background.
I didn't mean it to sound like they were applicable to anyone attending state school.

Fri son wants to get into Oxford because it's a stepping stone to Harvard. So I guess the Americans are still interested

I love it. Social justice at work.

Where degree snobs are passed over in favour of hard work. Our society can't move forward until we start seeing people for their personal achievements, not their privilege.

‘Oxbridge are so elitist and do little to further diversity.’

I went to Oxbridge. Both the alumnae magazines I receive ( one from the University, one from the college) have virtually nothing in them but articles about diversity, inclusion and even more striving to ‘foster inclusivity’, along with begging for funds to help this ‘ outreach work’. They are so boring that they go straight in the bin.

Lots of companies do almost everything blind.
ie
you are not allowed to put down
ethnicity
school
university
etc

Its all about inclusion. It helps avoid discrimination.
This is a good thing.

Do not fear. there will be plenty of people who know your son goes to Cambridge.

The blind recruitment is a fad. Go woke go broke. Credit Suisse gorged itself at the diversity table, over promoted mediocre people on the basis of sex/ colour and look where it has ended up.

Made me chuckle.

And Liz Truss? Now where did she go to Uni? ....And look where that ended up. Oh and Boris Johnson....

All good. Just a fad. Mediocre people are everywhere.

Why would you not want you child to get the job on their own actual merits and individuality rather than assumptions made about what a standard Cambridge grad is like? Surely a better fit would be achieved by all applicants starting on a level playing field and the best candidates selected on how their perform and conduct themself during the selection process?

My DC is a med student. After six years of uni, their F1 job will be via a university blind process.

You’re missing the point of going to a top uni. It’s about the experience, the contacts, the fact that he will be driven to get a top grade. Using it on a job application is way down the list in terms of benefits. And I agree that by the time grads are applying for jobs it should be based on personal merit rather than solely where they went to uni. Tell him to focus on getting the best grade possible and he will still stand out.

The most valuable skill I gained in university was a sense of achievement and pride . He will get an immense jolt to his confidence.
Plus the university is printed on the degree. It's not possible to "hire blind". And people get hired from interviews anyway not paperwork.

It really depends on the industry and company. There are plenty I know of in particularly the legal and financial sectors who will only hire grads from top 10/Russell group/redbrick unis.

No, I don't think you understand. In many subjects, I got just over 70%. But in most of the others I was marked down very harshly, only got 66% and 67%. The teaching was great and the university also had the contract to teach languages to spies. In real terms, many of the students WERE firsts. But the university awarded them a 2.1. It was kind of like the "gold standard". This was back in the 1980s, no one cared about "university tables" back then. I know you say it is statistically impossible, but it happened. It was the department's policy (although I wonder what would have happened if the "brain of Britain" had taken the course....).

You don’t get to be a top Uni in the world based on “assumptions”
So completing a degree at a top Uni is a merit in its own right. And a first class degree it is evidence of 3+ yrs of hard work.

But you’d rather hire based on the popularity contest that is a 45minute job interview and pretend that is merit based rather than “gosh I liked Sally nice smile, nice bubbly personality, good eye contact, she will be a great fit for the team”

I think you’re being a big glass half empty here. Because of LinkedIn all future contacts will know where he went. It’s mostly because only the first round of basic graduate jobs at your big companies that will have this blind thing.

Selective based on the 11+. They are still free.

I think you’re being a big glass half empty here. Because of LinkedIn all future contacts will know where he went. It’s mostly because only the first round of basic graduate jobs at your big companies that will have this blind thing.

Exactly.

It's like a drop in the ocean of unfavourable outcomes.

I think it's called 'the Boris effect'.