Missed rent payments. I can't pay it.

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Before this situation got to this point i posted in legal matters but didn't get a lot of traffic so shamelessly posting here. Sorry.

We rented a 2 bedroom house. Tenancy was up for renewal a last year. We renewed (with a rental increase) (blinded not knowing what was coming our way). 4 days after renewing our tenancy agreement we were told the house was going on the market. Obviously had we had known this was going to happen we wouldn't have renewed. In the mix of all of that, I was struck with a cancer diagnosis. Meaning out of work and no income. We told them after this, that we couldn't pay the rent due to the circumstances. I moved back to my parents annex. Because I was still under contract I am still liable for the rent. Because of how vulnerable my health is, I couldn't have viewings and people coming in and out as I had to, and still do, have to shield whilst having treatment. The landlord would not let us go. But we moved out. I know the advise is to stay until getting evicted but I tried to do the right thing and not hinder a sale as I doubt any non investors want to buy a house with sitting tenants. All viewings have been family viewings and AFAIK it's a family the house has now sold to.

We are now obviously months in arrears. The house is sold. The landlord has informed us he has claimed on his insurance to get the money back.

I'm just wondering what will happen next, what will the insurers do? I did speak to shelter and there are parts of the agreement that the landlord did not stick to which we were unaware of. I can't really say what they are as they're very specific and outing but the landlord did something outside the contracted agreement after he told us the house was going up for sale.

As you can imagine, it's an already stressful hard time. The cancer is here for the long run, but with the treatment and surgeries we are hoping for me to still have some time left. It's a cancer you sort of 'live with' as long as it stays stable after my initial treatment.

It's obvious that the landlord waited until renewing our tenancy before telling us so there's no gaps in the rent / sale. But due to it all happen in at once, we couldn't afford to stay. DX came days after the notice of selling the house. I needed to move back in with parents as I need help with DC at the moment after having treatment.

What happens now, will the insurer take me to court? Will they decline his claim for breaking the contract? Will I have to go to court?

Im expecting a battering for this. I know I've made some wrong decisions but I've had little to no choice. Not able to get social housing as DH earns too much. But without my wage, (main breadwinner) we simply could not do the rent. I tried and tried to come to a compromise but LL didn't want to know. Wanted the full rent (plus increase) and that was that. Didn't want to let us go. I just want to know what we'll expect in the next coming months now he has submitted a claim to the insurer. Deposit is in the correct scheme and the house was half managed by a letting agency.

Thank you.

I had a landlord who tried a lower level but still annoying version of having his cake and eating it. We were on a periodic tenacy so only had to give one months notice. We bought a flat and nearing completing we gave him the required months notice. We completed a week later and moved out.

Our landlord came round on move day and asked for the keys back as he wanted to get the decorators in straight away. I said we would be happy to surrender the keys for him to start the decorating if he repaid us rent for the three weeks we could not have access to the flat. He refused.

Reader - I changed the locks and made use of the empty flat I was paying for every day of those three weeks.

Why yes, I am a petty bitch.

• even if you weren't living at the property if you had a tenancy you still had right to quiet enjoyment of the property - meaning that the landlord should have requested permission for viewings, entry etc..
• Has the sale happened during the 12 month tenancy period he says you are liable for? If so and he says your tenancy to is still valid he would have to have sold the house with the tenancy in place and the new owner will now be your landlord. If he sold it with vacant possession then he has illegally evicted you.
• Has he issued a s8 noticed for rent arrears?

@Ginmonkeyagain

We weren't living at the property. I did raise the quiet enjoyment of the property but was pressured into allowing viewings as it was 'in our favour' of the property were to sell. We now know that favour doesn't exist.
The sale of the property went ahead before our 6 month break clause. That break clause is in 2 months time.
He has said, multiple times (today included) that our tenancy is still valid, so we are legally obliged to pay the rent until the break clause.
The buyers as far as we know, are family first time buyers.
No section 8 received. Just weekly reminders through the EA that the rent is in arrears.

@Ginmonkeyagain

We also have no idea who the new owners are.
They are a family and are occupying the property themselves.

Hmm - i suspect he hasn't a leg to sand on. He has tried to keep you on the hook for the tenancy and sell it as vacant possession.

Get some advice form Shelter though as IANAL - just someone who had a lot of shitty landlords in the past.

That’s perfectly legal as long as he gives notice in line with estimated completion dates. Landlords are allowed to sell their homes with a tenant in and then give notice as a sale proceeds

He can try to claim for unpaid rent from when you stopped paying to when you left the house. However his court costs are likely to be more than that. You have now left and are entitled to your deposit back.

Sad u thought you'd get a hard time your landlord sounds a right knobhead

Knock on the door of the house & tell them you still have a tenancy. The property should not have sold. Huge mistakes made by solicitors/sellers/buyers. Guessing LL told fibs & told them it was vacant. Talk to Shelter, they are the experts.

That there may be a case for unfair dismissal?

Also very false about landlords not being reasonable.

@Whitebeamtreelover Indeed it is perfectly legal to market and sell a tenanted property.

However if, as the OP says, she was not been given proper notice before the sale was completed then the new owner is her landlord.

Apologies if I have misunderstood, and previously addressed by other posters: (1) If the property is occupied by a new owners, at most, AT MOST, the previous owner (your landlord) could argue to be entitled to rent up to the date of completion, which I understand to be about 4 months rent. (2) You say that your landlord is claiming that rent is still due until the minimum contractual period runs out. Seeing as he could not have earned this rent due to selling the property, his argument has no leg to stand on. Under contract law, he has suffered no loss. He cannot claim what he could not have earned (3) insurers in law have subrogated rights so can in theory pursue the debtor/person at fault - you will just have to see how that goes, but please concentrate on your health and deal with that aspect as and when it happens.🌺

sorry also wanted to add, if the LL is advising that his insurers paid the outstanding rent under a policy, then subject to the terms of the policy he would get the rent he would have been entitled to. Assuming he has been paid £3,000 (amounting to the rent up to completion of the property), then that is what he would have been paid via a court judgement. So even his insurers do not believe he is entitled to anything after the sale of the property. Please be rest assured, under English law, you can only claim for losses you suffered for and/or what you have obtained has the other party not broken the contract. Seeing as after completion he would not have been paid rent, everything he is saying about rent continuing to accrue is utter BS. It is a bluff and he is playing you. The agent should not be engaging in such BS either and if part of a chain, I would report them to their head office.

I know. I wasn’t asking why they renewed but responding to someone else asking why they might not.

You absolutely don’t need to pay him until the end of the tenancy. He has to be able to show “actual losses” and claimants have a responsibility to mitigate their losses too. The time from when the house was sold is not an actual loss as he didn’t have a house available.

Don’t do this. You’d look so stupid 😂

OP do contact shelter or citizens advise.

As usual I am astounded by the terrible faux legal advice on Mumsnet.

@USSDefiant

^^ is right.

Also if you were now to pay him he’d have to refund his insurers, as it’s now their loss not his.

If his claim with the insurance company is successful, they'll probably pass the case to solicitors to pursue a recovery from you. They'll likely do an asset check on you (to see if you have the means to pay it) & if you don't they may well abandon the recovery as it won't be worth them forking out for the legal costs. Though, they may ask if you can pay anything at all.
Given your diagnosis, they may not pursue at all (I'm fairly confident that the insurance company I work for wouldn't pursue in these circumstances - contrary to popular belief, not all insurance companies are greedy money grabbers)

Very sorry to hear about your diagnosis, OP.

If the landlord hadn’t been selling, what would you have done?

It sounds like the catalyst here for not paying rent was your financial situation, not the sale.

100.%

Well yes, but that doesn’t prevent OP understanding exactly what her liability is - which is a pretty essential starting point when settling a debt.

@RedRosette2023 stops the whole "your landlord is terrible for selling the house" when in fact it gave them housing security for a year and it's the fact the oP is unable to work which is why they are in this predicament

OP what notice did the LL serve 4 days after the renewal? What is the name of the form? What notice period does it give you to vacate the property?

Or was it just mentioned in passing they are selling?

Nothing,

@RedRosette2023 no they should knock on the door to get the actual situation, because these buyers have bought this house and the OP is liable for the rent. So at least get some evidence as well,