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Original poster

Missed rent payments. I can't pay it.

165 replies

imogeneration · 17/05/2023 12:20

Before this situation got to this point i posted in legal matters but didn't get a lot of traffic so shamelessly posting here. Sorry.

We rented a 2 bedroom house. Tenancy was up for renewal a last year. We renewed (with a rental increase) (blinded not knowing what was coming our way). 4 days after renewing our tenancy agreement we were told the house was going on the market. Obviously had we had known this was going to happen we wouldn't have renewed. In the mix of all of that, I was struck with a cancer diagnosis. Meaning out of work and no income. We told them after this, that we couldn't pay the rent due to the circumstances. I moved back to my parents annex. Because I was still under contract I am still liable for the rent. Because of how vulnerable my health is, I couldn't have viewings and people coming in and out as I had to, and still do, have to shield whilst having treatment. The landlord would not let us go. But we moved out. I know the advise is to stay until getting evicted but I tried to do the right thing and not hinder a sale as I doubt any non investors want to buy a house with sitting tenants. All viewings have been family viewings and AFAIK it's a family the house has now sold to.

We are now obviously months in arrears. The house is sold. The landlord has informed us he has claimed on his insurance to get the money back.

I'm just wondering what will happen next, what will the insurers do? I did speak to shelter and there are parts of the agreement that the landlord did not stick to which we were unaware of. I can't really say what they are as they're very specific and outing but the landlord did something outside the contracted agreement after he told us the house was going up for sale.

As you can imagine, it's an already stressful hard time. The cancer is here for the long run, but with the treatment and surgeries we are hoping for me to still have some time left. It's a cancer you sort of 'live with' as long as it stays stable after my initial treatment.

It's obvious that the landlord waited until renewing our tenancy before telling us so there's no gaps in the rent / sale. But due to it all happen in at once, we couldn't afford to stay. DX came days after the notice of selling the house. I needed to move back in with parents as I need help with DC at the moment after having treatment.

What happens now, will the insurer take me to court? Will they decline his claim for breaking the contract? Will I have to go to court?

Im expecting a battering for this. I know I've made some wrong decisions but I've had little to no choice. Not able to get social housing as DH earns too much. But without my wage, (main breadwinner) we simply could not do the rent. I tried and tried to come to a compromise but LL didn't want to know. Wanted the full rent (plus increase) and that was that. Didn't want to let us go. I just want to know what we'll expect in the next coming months now he has submitted a claim to the insurer. Deposit is in the correct scheme and the house was half managed by a letting agency.

Thank you.

OP posts:
sillyonehetpes · 17/05/2023 15:52

Crazydoglady1980 · 17/05/2023 15:41

There’s a few important questions

  • How long was it between stopping payment and the house being sold? As you have not been given details of a new landlord and the current landlord no longer owns the property, the contact is invalid
  • Were you advised that the agent would not accept you notice of two months when given
  • when we’re the keys returned?

No the contract is still valid. The tenant will be paying the rent to the old landlord because the conveyancing solicitors didn't do their job right. Not the tenants fault.

Nordicrain · 17/05/2023 15:52

If the house has sold and your tenancy has not transferred you are not under contract. There is no tenancy as the landlord doesn't have a house to let to you.

Do you have evidence of your notice and the rent you paid till such notice?

sillyonehetpes · 17/05/2023 15:53

Whitebeamtreelover · 17/05/2023 15:19

I’m so sorry about your illness and hope you make a full recovery.

on the subject the post I think is misleading a lot of folks. Do I understand you renewed, then due to cancer diagnosis, you moved out and ceased paying rent, even though you were legally obliged to do so. The house was not sold at this point and you were not evicted? As such you owe the rent and this is what you’re concerned about?

Yes they still require to pay rent until the end of the fixed term.....

However spanner in the works is that the new owners may have moved into the property.

sillyonehetpes · 17/05/2023 15:53

Just to be clear this is my job....

Original poster
imogeneration · 17/05/2023 15:54

sillyonehetpes · 17/05/2023 15:29

Why would you not have renewed? You needed somewhere to live.

Because I would've had NO idea when the house would've sold. So I accept a tenancy with people traipsing in and out only to be told it's now sold and we get 8 weeks notice.

I'd rather plan ahead and find a secure home (which we now have and are moving into shortly) then live on tender hooks filling the landlords pockets so he doesn't miss any gaps between rent and the exchange of a house. (The very reason he didn't tell us until after we renewed.)

If there was really nothing wrong with what he was doing he would've told us before we renewed.

OP posts:
HannahHasThePower · 17/05/2023 15:55

Don’t know legally, but wanted to au sorry life is shit.
I think you have less people going to come after you as you have notice and paid and moved out. It would be different if you stopped paying and stayed in the house.

Original poster
imogeneration · 17/05/2023 15:57

Crazydoglady1980 · 17/05/2023 15:41

There’s a few important questions

  • How long was it between stopping payment and the house being sold? As you have not been given details of a new landlord and the current landlord no longer owns the property, the contact is invalid
  • Were you advised that the agent would not accept you notice of two months when given
  • when we’re the keys returned?

4 months of missed payment to sale of the house. But he's trying to tell me I still need to pay rent until what would be the end of our tenancy.

No, they denied our notice.
Keys given back a few months ago

OP posts:
Original poster
imogeneration · 17/05/2023 15:59

sillyonehetpes · 17/05/2023 15:50

@RedRosette2023 I assume they renewed because the rent was reasonable for the area, if not they would have looked elsewhere and gone month to month.

Just because your landlord sells it means nothing. Your contract is still valid and the new landlord can't kick you out before the end of the tenancy.

Housing security at the moment is non existent.

I just want to make it clear, the house has been sold to a family, not an investor.

OP posts:
Original poster
imogeneration · 17/05/2023 16:00

Nordicrain · 17/05/2023 15:52

If the house has sold and your tenancy has not transferred you are not under contract. There is no tenancy as the landlord doesn't have a house to let to you.

Do you have evidence of your notice and the rent you paid till such notice?

Yes, we kept copies of everything

OP posts:
Rafferty10 · 17/05/2023 16:04

Horrible LL
As a LL myself, if l was selling, and considering the cirumstance,s l would have terminated your contract and waived the rent. I have done similar before when horrible life events have badly affected my tenants.

malificent7 · 17/05/2023 16:06

This landlord is an awful man...even by landlord's standards.

kitchenhelprequired · 17/05/2023 16:10

When specifically did you sign a new contract and how long was it for? When did the house sale go through? Legally if you had a tenancy agreement in place the LL would have had to sell the property with sitting tenants. You can look up sale date on land registry website. Try and find out when the insurance policy was taken out to make sure it was before you told them you were sick. LL advertising for sale just after signing a new tenancy agreement is deeply unscrupulous and if the agent was involved in that in any way I would see if they belong to any association you can lodge a complaint to. You didn't need to allow access for viewings, LL's have no legal right to that regardless of what you might have been told. I'm sorry to hear you have been so poorly treated. There was absolutely no reason to hold you to the contract other than greed - rentals are flying off the shelves and have been for ages. Anything that doesn't is either way over priced, in a really poor state or there's a reason like yours where it's on the market for sale (but even then lots of people would take a chance on knowing a house with sitting tenants is hard to sell). I really hope you stay well and manage to sort this all out with as little pain as is possible.

Freddiefox · 17/05/2023 16:10

When does your tenancy run out?
have you been given a final date when it ends.

get the keys back, you are paying. Don’t give him the chance to sell it before the end of your tenancy unless he is willing to compromise.

katmarie · 17/05/2023 16:10

Hang on, so is he saying that you are still under tenancy now, even though he no longer owns the house and you can't live there?

Is this basically what has happened? You signed a 12 month tenancy in month 1, and LL told you that same month the house was going up for sale. You moved out in month 3 and stopped paying rent. The house sold to new owners in month 5. You're still accruing arrears and will do until month 12? Or have you now stopped accruing arrears? Have you had anything in writing from the landlord formally ending your tenancy?

I think you need specialised advice from someone like Shelter. If your tenancy agreement is still valid but you can't live in the property, then that's a sticky situation for your landlord.

katmarie · 17/05/2023 16:11

imogeneration · 17/05/2023 15:57

4 months of missed payment to sale of the house. But he's trying to tell me I still need to pay rent until what would be the end of our tenancy.

No, they denied our notice.
Keys given back a few months ago

Show quote history

Hes having a fucking laugh. If you're obliged to pay rent, he's obliged to house you. That contract covers both parties.

justanothernamechangemonday · 17/05/2023 16:12

Can a landlord refuse notice??

kitchenhelprequired · 17/05/2023 16:13

justanothernamechangemonday · 17/05/2023 16:12

Can a landlord refuse notice??

yes if within the fixed term

katmarie · 17/05/2023 16:15

justanothernamechangemonday · 17/05/2023 16:12

Can a landlord refuse notice??

Yes, if the contract terms are correct, for example the contract is for 12 months with no break or early leaving clause, then you can give notice and leave but you would still be liable for the remainder of the rent for the contract. That is effectively refusing notice to end the contract early.

If the contract allows break clauses or is a rolling month to month contract, them notice can be given in accordance with the notice terms of the contract.

sillyonehetpes · 17/05/2023 16:17

Freddiefox · 17/05/2023 16:10

When does your tenancy run out?
have you been given a final date when it ends.

get the keys back, you are paying. Don’t give him the chance to sell it before the end of your tenancy unless he is willing to compromise.

Errrr house sales aren't down to tenants

justanothernamechangemonday · 17/05/2023 16:17

For me, the landlord allowing the OP to sign another years contract and then selling 8 weeks later is the issue - surely if this did go to court (which I think is a huge if) that would be enough to ensure the OP isn't liable for the length of the tenancy?

Freddiefox · 17/05/2023 16:20

sillyonehetpes · 17/05/2023 16:17

Errrr house sales aren't down to tenants

Show quote history

sillyonehetpes

errrr, why should the landlord have the ease of an unoccupied house to sell when his tenant is still paying the rent?

houses with sitting tenant aren’t that easy to sell.

sillyonehetpes · 17/05/2023 16:20

@imogeneration you wouldn't have been given 8 weeks notice - unless the landlord is able to break the tenancy at any time.

Just because the house is sold doesn't mean your original tenancy changes - it doesn't. You can either negotiate a new tenancy or keep the existing.

Just like you can't end this tenancy, neither can the landlord.

It's also strange that a house was able to be mortgaged with a sitting tenant. Which makes it strange and why I'm constantly asking for your proof of who it was sold to, how they moved in etc.

sillyonehetpes · 17/05/2023 16:20

Rafferty10 · 17/05/2023 16:04

Horrible LL
As a LL myself, if l was selling, and considering the cirumstance,s l would have terminated your contract and waived the rent. I have done similar before when horrible life events have badly affected my tenants.

You prob would have

sillyonehetpes · 17/05/2023 16:23

Without sounding rude how is your current financial situation? If you aren't paying rent or childcare fees you will have some savings as hubby is on a good wage?

Have you been able to claim benefits?

Original poster
imogeneration · 17/05/2023 16:28

sillyonehetpes · 17/05/2023 16:20

@imogeneration you wouldn't have been given 8 weeks notice - unless the landlord is able to break the tenancy at any time.

Just because the house is sold doesn't mean your original tenancy changes - it doesn't. You can either negotiate a new tenancy or keep the existing.

Just like you can't end this tenancy, neither can the landlord.

It's also strange that a house was able to be mortgaged with a sitting tenant. Which makes it strange and why I'm constantly asking for your proof of who it was sold to, how they moved in etc.

The EA selling the property is a different EA that managed the property. We've been liaising with the selling EA to arrange viewings (they always called us and asked us permission even though we moved out.)

When I called them to say I was getting in there to do an end of tenancy clean and shampoo the carpets, they informed me the house has sold to FTB family. That's all I know in regards to the buyers.

They haven't moved in yet as far as I know (the house is en route to DDs nursery and it looks empty still)

When the renting EA informed us about the house is on the market, the email said, quote 'the landlord is happy for you to stay in situ until a point of sale. If a sale hasn't been agreed by The end of tenancy date your tenancy will roll onto a periodic.'
Word for word that's what it said. So we took that as the landlord is only happy for us to stay as long as there's no buyer. Only happy for us to stay in situ until a point of sale. The actual sale itself came along not too long after that. (Before the end of the tenancy). So he would've tried to give us our notice before the end of tenancy anyway, as a buyer was found months and months before the end of our tenancy.
The renting EA has already admitted the email was poorly worded and their normal protocol when in this situation is to send a template email (which they didn't) explaining options and time scales followed by a phone call (which I didn't get.)

OP posts: