What is going to happen as financial inequality just gets bigger and bigger?

[FishTankSally]

I can't really wrap my head around it. Things seem to be accelerating in terms of getting worse, both in individual countries like the UK or USA, and then on a global level with climate change.

What is the future going to look like, at local level and on a bigger world scale?

If we are in late capitalism now, how long will things trundle along before getting worse?

I didn't say it does need to get bigger. I'm saying if you increase one set of salaries the others up the chain will also need a proportional increase too, you'll never close the gap.

Tang ping lying flat or Great Resignation post pandemic do seem to be individuals making choices about disengaging with modern capitalism.

I think there may be less rioting in the streets and much more disengagement though I do think USA is very close to bad things.

I've seen some US media pieces on-line that suggest young US men are socializing less partnering up less and feeling lonely more - partly due to their work practises and higher living costs. Most of western world has very low fertility rates as do many other parts of the globe which brings good and bad things for the future.

There are historically tipping points with social inequality - Newnight informed me years ago that Roman emprire had most extreme for longets periods

Where is this capitalism you speak of? We are living in age of cronyism with manufactured crises.

Inequality in itself is not a bad thing. If it is, then are we happy for everyone to be on breadline, as long as everyone suffers equally. What matters is that standard of living for lowest common denominator keep rising all the time. This country, at least is in a period of managed decline where lack of political competence and statesmanship for the past 25 years has led to socialist creep. Throw a few scraps in the form of charity/welfare to those at the bottom to keep them happy, while rampant corruption takes root at the top. Eventually the newly created underclass becomes so used to getting handouts that they start to see handouts as the only acceptable solution, not matter how small.

Immigration and wage stagnation was the price we paid for low inflation. Living costs rising will be permanent and has to be met by wage increases and interest rate rises. It will slow housing appreciation.

Not in my future but I can see a big shift to some kind of population control. Maybe not quite The Purge but something. Perhaps some kind of chemical castration for those deemed unworthy of producing. If you remove the people who cause the issues you remove the need to solve the issues they cause .
It’s all very dystopian!

I don't think we are in a state of managed decline as such more a state of everyone wanted a piece of the good times and can't accept the good times don't last forever. This too shall pass applies for good and bad after all.

We are also in an era of huge technological advances and widespread availability of knowledge and information. The problem with this is both are unmoderated both are something everyone wants, needs and feels entitled to access to which feeds into this sense of jealousy and feeling like the gap is wider than it is.

Our population is in decline as it is, it doesn't feel like it but it is in real terms. The problem with greater education is greater self awareness and lower desire to reproduce. There is a reason despots don't like educating women - educated women don't want to be baby making factories subservient to men.

Governments will attempt to control the population but fail,we already have not enough births in many countries none of which have managed to find ways to incentivize people to have more children

@Spendonsend
*But why does the gap need to get bigger.

Why was 20% more ok but now it has to be 50% more.

The gap between the top and bottom is growing*
The level of inequality in income has been roughly plateauing in the UK since the early 1990s and no government (Labour or Tory) has made a big impact either way. The idea that there has recently been a step change in this is just completely wrong.

If you're talking about wealth inequality, well the UK is completely average in this regard when compared to other similar OECD countries. Very few OECD countries distribute their wealth in a significantly more equal manner (and some like Sweden are notably more unequal).

Hopefully a universal basic income plus more leisure time as AI can do more of the jobs

(In reality I reckon I'm going to get beaten to death for fucking toilet roll)

Educated women are having fewer children . Uneducated not so much .

But the middle classes and those who have to pay for everything are having fewer children. I realise IQ isn’t 100% hereditary but it does play a part. We need everyone regardless of finances to have fewer children.

There are a lot of women who would put up with a lot from men to be able to stay at home and look after babies. You read it on here all the time.

It is concerning on many counts.
In the past, people were aware that some had more and some had less. To one extent those who did not have did not know how much those who had, had. Now with media, social and otherwise it is clear to anyone with a pho e how much more the top 1% has, and also the top 10% has.
They can do the maths
Also the removal or at least reduction in the middle class (to which the Tories are to blame - Thatcher initially) created even more of a divide. Traditionally the middle class have provided the supporters, the helpers, the volunteers, the idealists. But this has been hamstring by the "work sets you free" ideology.

Birth rates are falling below replacement levels in many countries, governments are panicking, the wealth and prosperity of those at the top depends on a constant stream of new humans to be cogs in the machine.
Making life fair and more equal will be the only way that governments can incentivize people to have more children.

It seems pretty common in most societies that those who have the most children can least afford them. It is interesting that almost all of the increase in child poverty in the UK over the last 25 years has taken place among larger families (this was happening even before the 2 children benefit cap). I know on MN this is unpopular and all the usual excuses will be suggested but the reality is that a lot of the parents choosing to have these children have to take some of the responsibility for the often terrible financial circumstances they then subsequently find themselves in.

Well people, especially those who are younger have had enough. For our parents generation you could work hard and get ahead. Now you can get a good degree and a well paying career and still have far less than our grandparents who worked in manual jobs had.

I often think about when the tipping point will inevitably come. When you have people working more than full-time hours who can't afford the very basics then what? I predict violence and lots of damage. If I could afford to heat or power my home and there was no solution on the horizon, I wouldn't sit back and take it. I'd make sure that the richest in society were to go down with me, damaging the power grid, contaminating their water and food supply, whatever it would take.

I was wondering this about the super rich getting richer. I know there were always rich people but go back 100-200 years and the rich lived spread out throughout the country and employed people in that area, now we have a few mega rich people and where is their wealth? How is it distributed? A big country estate by me now runs mostly on volunteers doing the gardening etc, whereas that used to be a team of gardeners careers. I’m not sure if this is really relevant to the question but I have been thinking about it a lot.

The super rich (and just plain rich) still employ tonnes of people, don't worry about that!

They have cleaners, pool maintenance people, gardeners, nannys etc the list goes on and and on. They send their kids to school with low adult:child ratios so more staff needed there and are constantly renovating their houses using lots of tradespeople. A super yacht company is a major employer in our local town and lots of people work there manufacturing the boats.

Forgot to mention that they have professional caterers in for dinner parties and hire big teams to put on major events. The trickle down effect from these people is real and it really is beneficial for the wider area if you have rich people living there that are willing and able to splash the cash.

Yes I suppose it’s obvious when you think about it like that. I think I’m from quite a rural/ country area and not in the south so we perhaps don’t see it as much? I just see what used to be big estates struggling/ not employing anywhere near what they would have once over. But I imagine it’s very different in London for example.

Because heritage costs money and a lot of these old estates and families have no real cash flow - it's why a lot of buildings get sold on to the national trust or English heritage or they simply open their doors. They need the money to employ people.

Thats really interesting thats its plateued since the 90s. There was certainly a run of articles not very long ago saying it was increasing. There were suggestions about linking CEO pay to a maximum of eg 20 times the lowest paid employee (not suggesting this was sensible) That is reassuring that is not the case.

From todays news it seems that climate change will wreak havoc by 2030 so financial inequality is likely to hugely increase, or it could turn into survival of the fittest and those with practical skills. Who knows how it will all turn out in the wash . . .

This 100%