What is going to happen as financial inequality just gets bigger and bigger?

[FishTankSally]

I can't really wrap my head around it. Things seem to be accelerating in terms of getting worse, both in individual countries like the UK or USA, and then on a global level with climate change.

What is the future going to look like, at local level and on a bigger world scale?

If we are in late capitalism now, how long will things trundle along before getting worse?

That could be because of unemployment rise after covid and people have more time? I'm not sure.

I am reminded of the following “Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.”

The West has largely not experienced hard times for quite a few generations now and we have all become used to the idea that things will and should get better irrespective of the amount of effort, time and energy we expend. We forget that the welfare state was hard won and a legacy of the wars where rich and poor fought side by side and paid the ultimate price together. That connection and affinity has diminished and a culture of entitlement has taken hold. People would rather fight for a larger piece of a diminishing pie than fight to grow the pie so there is more for all.

Our productivity levels are appalling and the aftermath of Brexit makes us an unattractive investment prospect. We have an ageing and unhealthy population who are placing an ever increasing burden on our health and social care systems. We are used to importing cheap goods from China and other countries and having access to cheap food using questionable production techniques. We have completely lose touch with the real cost of things and how much it actually takes to produce anything ourselves. I think we need a radical rethink where we all are forced to accept the new economic reality and that we all must play our part in improving the situation. We can't deflect from ourselves anymore.

Read the room...

It's a valid concern but could have been phrased a lot better. Over tax the high rate payers and you'll lose them, who'll foot the bill then?

Sigh...it's not the high rate tax payers that are the problem..it's the no tax payers. Too many HNWIs and corporations avoiding or evading tax. Sunak and his 22% tax and Lewis Hamilton living in Monaco are more of a problem than Damian in Surrey who earns £100,000
This will be a global problem and needs a global solution IMO. Shut down the offshore tax-havens...which is a problem because it's the people who use them who make the laws.
People like Jeff Bezos needs to start paying his employees properly before spending money on space ships...see also Elon Musk, who was on tv yesterday defending a white supremacist.
Any merest mention of a fairer society in the US is screamed at as socialism and the devils work but surely something must be done before there's civil unrest. I don't see how people can go on getting poorer while prices keep going up.
My gas standing order has gone from £40 to £250 in just over a year. It's not sustainable.

This

What a load of shit.

I can't see any hope of things changing - I don't expect there will be conflict, the hoarders of resources will ensure the downtrodden remain so.

Nothing good, we are living in extremely precious times.

The old adage "Good Times create weak people, weak people create bad times, bad times create strong people, strong people create good times" has never been truer.

Unfortunately we are to weak people in that cycle, and the bad times are coming.

And we really are weak, we have let ourselves be ruled over, we accept, without question, any law or regulation foisted upon us in the name of "safety", we have prostrated ourselves before the altar of wokeism and utterly submitted to the decisions of others. We just obey, and apart from a strongly worded email or Mumsnet post, we do fuck all about anything.

And we have raised a whole generation to be even more useless and weak than we are. Christ knows what's going to happen if the average 25 year old is called upon to actually do something.

The difference between rich and poor will grow exponentially, but it won't be a money issue. That's already been taken away from us because we were too weak to do anything about it. The new "poor" will be those who the algorithms decide are not worthy, their "social credit" will be lacking. And don't kid yourself that a social credit system isn't coming, the groundwork has already been done.

A Central Bank Digital currency is being rolled out in the EU, Christine Lagarde has been very vocal about how this will work. Basically, your money will not belong to you, it will be owned by the state and you will be allowed to access it only as long as you comply with their laws. Your access to your accounts will be absolutely conditional. In several EU states it's already a criminal offence to pay more than 1000 Euros in cash for anything or give to anyone.

Your bank account will be linked to your social media history and your Internet use. Your associate with other people will also be used to "score you".

Currently, at least a dozen labs are in a race to develop software which can literally read your mind, based on how blood flows around your head and MRI results. This texh will be perfected, it's only a matter of time. In the not too distant future, actual "thought crime" will become a reality. You will be arrested for thinking the "wrong" thing.

I don't hold out much hope for society. We won't perish in a Nuclear war, we will end up in a much more terrifying place. We will exist within a true surveillance society, where our every word, thought, action will be used to control us.

The "rich" will be those who control the systems, the unelected EU leaders and Tech CEO's.

My heart weeps for you. 🙄

Is everyone aware communism doesn't work?

The UK needs to be attract the wealthy. It needs the money generated by investment and business. Right now, the UK isn’t an attractive proposition, the OECD ranks it at 26 out of 38 for tax competitiveness.

Capital is mobile. The knee-jerk ‘tax the rich!’ reaction will only result in the wealthy leaving the country, putting the burden on those with less. They are already leaving, in fact. There’s a net outflow of millionaires.

This is worth reading for anyone interested:
https://taxfoundation.org/publications/international-tax-competitiveness-index/

I'm not sure I ws thinking tax the rich was the route to a more equal society?
I was thinking pay the workers
Or if thats too revolutionary, build some housing.

Things do need be more equal.

Salaries need to be higher & income tax bands increased & workers need to feel they are getting "value".

Target housing wealth, lots of older people sitting in fortunes, well tap into that for nhs & social care. They are not the global
elite & won't be running off to tax havens

As of estate planning wouldn’t be utilized to solve that particular issue. Even if loopholes were closed and the legalities dealt with, what happens when that well runs dry? It’s a short term ‘solution’ that will further serve to make the UK a more unattractive proposition than it already is.

Emigration isn’t the sole preserve of the elite, either. They’re also not all running off the tax havens as opposed to countries that offer them a better deal than they’re getting here.

I think it'll be like a cross between Mad Max and Ready Player One.

Pay the workers more = rise in cost of living = calls the pay the workers more = rise in cost of living ...

I'd love to live in a utopian state but I'm also a realist. There will always be the haves and have nots in society, I hate it, but all we can do is put a society in place that supports those that struggle and empowers change or if that isn't possible provides structure and support.

Anne widdicombe (not a fan but I like the statement) said the other day if you can't afford cheese don't have a cheese Sandwich.

Just because someone isn't a high earner it doesn't make them workshy. Some of the hardest workers I know work in low paying jobs like care.
You high earners would be fucked without the lower earners.

You managed to type that without telling people that the UKs tax burden is the highest it's been forever.

To answer the OP, revolution and war. Always has, always will.

There will always be haves and have nots. But the gap between the two groups is getting wider. It is possible to have a 'more' equal society by reducing the gap without becoming a communist state. There are other countries with more equal societies. The uk was more equal when I started first work (pre 2008 crash)

The salary thing only ever applies to low paid workers. They musnt earn more because inflation but wealthy people must have an increasing percentage of the wealth because they don't impact inflation apparently.

A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to complacency; From complacency to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.

45% tax household here and happy to pay it but furious the way tax-payers money has been squandered by the current government.

Agree the way to go is invest in education, will solve so many problems down the line.

Also think a move to insurance based health service is needed with help for those at the very bottom, like in most of EU. I’ve experienced EU and US healthcare and I truly hope the UK avoids the latter.

Foreign Investment in UK is down because of Brexit uncertainty. Companies are slowly moving their business out of UK. Result is little or no growth.

Meanwhile inequality increases.

The salary thing only ever applies to low paid workers. They musnt earn more because inflation but wealthy people must have an increasing percentage of the wealth because they don't impact inflation apparently.

no if the lower earners earn more you then have to pay the higher earners more... The pay gap is there because some jobs require greater skills and knowledge or greater intrusion on the personal life and the pay reflects that. If we paid everyone the same what's the incentive to train relentlessly for years on end?

i also feel a lot of today's poverty is aspirational not true poverty. I want a big house and a big garden but I won't get that on my current career trajectory, I can't be bothered to change my career trajectory so I need to accept I can't have a big house and a big garden in the town I currently live in. I'm not going to get jealous because your life choices have meant you can have a big house and garden because that's not a productive or healthy use of my time.

Foreign Investment in UK is down because of Brexit uncertainty. Companies are slowly moving their business out of UK. Result is little or no growth.

It's worse than that ... as business moves out of the UK it will pull the very people we need to do that business in the UK out too. Either because they aren't UK based to start with, or because they can do better elsewhere. The recent lure of Australia being an example.

It's so obvious the only conclusion that can be drawn is that it is a deliberate policy on the part of our government.

And if you want to chime in suggesting that no government could be that venal or willing to sacrifice so much for their own wealth, then you have to accept the alternative is they are so mind bogglingly incompetent they didn't see it happening.

Either way they are not fit for government.

But why does the gap need to get bigger.

Why was 20% more ok but now it has to be 50% more.

The gap between the top and bottom is growing.