Page 5 | To come down like a tonne of bricks

alpacamaraca · 16/05/2023 15:33

Hi OP,

I've not RTFT but this is what I would do having been in a very similar situation (I'm sure others will disagree).

Write to your tenants and explain what you have to us - that mortgage/insurance means you don't profit (you've not said if you pay tax). Therefore you can't accept less than the agreed rent, further short payments will mean you have no choice but to issue a section 21.

I would let the underpayments go for now but....

Keep a record of the payments / amounts missed and make a claim on their deposit when they do move out, assuming you have it in a protection scheme.

Original poster

thisisasurvivor · 16/05/2023 15:34

alpacamaraca · 16/05/2023 15:33

Hi OP,

I've not RTFT but this is what I would do having been in a very similar situation (I'm sure others will disagree).

Write to your tenants and explain what you have to us - that mortgage/insurance means you don't profit (you've not said if you pay tax). Therefore you can't accept less than the agreed rent, further short payments will mean you have no choice but to issue a section 21.

I would let the underpayments go for now but....

Keep a record of the payments / amounts missed and make a claim on their deposit when they do move out, assuming you have it in a protection scheme.

This is what I think !!!!!!

Ok thanks for this
I will do so

Being fair but also being clear about my position

OP posts:

WhereYouLeftIt · 16/05/2023 15:34

thisisasurvivor · 16/05/2023 15:33

Interesting responses

I just don't want to act harsh

I just want to do the right thing

I can't afford to pay the mortgage this month

And so e responses here are harsh def not selfish in any way
Maybe stupid yes def !!!

But I also don't know if I should threaten eviction just yet

You won't be threatening eviction @thisisasurvivor . You will be pointing out the inevitable chain of events that will happen if they continue to default.

Original poster

thisisasurvivor · 16/05/2023 15:35

Yes !! Ok that's true

OP posts:

Bellaboo01 · 16/05/2023 15:37

thisisasurvivor · 16/05/2023 13:00

Hello all

So I rent a house out

Semi reliable tenants

Xmas rent late by ten days
All they could pay was half
So I said fine
Pay half no probs

Now - rent late
So they can only pay half this month

I have been very fair
Rent is 200 less than market value as I don't want to put any pressure on them

Say nothing and hope it won't happen again?

They have been there 3 years so only some issues since dec 22

Plus everyone is struggling financially now :(

Of course you are being unreasonable to 'come down like a ton of bricks' - that sounds very upsetting and aggressive.

But, of course you aren't being unreasonable to need them to pay their rent/contract etc.

Original poster

thisisasurvivor · 16/05/2023 15:46

WhereYouLeftIt · 16/05/2023 15:33

You need to talk to your tenants. It won't be a comfortable conversation, but the conversation has to be had. As someone mentioned upthread, having got away with paying half-rent in December, in their minds paying their rent is no longer THE priority bill.

Spell it out to them. You said they pay 600 in rent whilst you are paying 580 on the mortgage. You need to impress upon them that you simply cannot afford for them to not pay the rent. The mortgage still needs to be paid, so them not paying their rent means you are subsidising them, making up the shortfall from your own pocket. And that you don't have that sort of money. Be very clear in your discussion with them - if they don't pay, you can't either; and rather than let the house be repossessed, you will have to sell up - and that will mean eviction for them.

You need to impress upon them that if they skip paying rent, they are risking homelessness.

Yes

Be clear about it all and hope this is just a blip and we can get back on track

Could not fault them in any way prior to dec 2022

OP posts:

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 16/05/2023 15:50

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

And you are surprised and resentful that there are not enough houses to rent?

GasPanic · 16/05/2023 15:50

FrostyFifi · 16/05/2023 15:10

I would now tell anyone who doesn't have a hide like a rhino, a massive tolerance for stress and very deep pockets not to be a landlord.
OP in your position I'd evict them and sell, you're not making a profit anyway and are just getting a pile of stress for your pains.

Being a landlord was great when property prices were going up %stupid per year because even if you were renting out at a loss, the capital appreciation of the property more than made up for it.

Now the bottom has fallen out of the housing market, coupled with the fact that tenants are experiencing the COL crisis and are unable to pay increasing rent and tenants rights are being increased means it is a hiding to nothing, especially if the rent is paid against a BTL mortgage.

People who are landlords at the moment are mostly desperately hanging on in the vain hope house prices might start to rise again at some point in the future. But at the moment inflation is beating house price inflation by some considerable margin.

Good luck with that.

Name99 · 16/05/2023 15:54

I don't understand why you are charging below market value rent.
They've missed a payment and you can't pay the mortgage, what if the house needed any extensive repairs?

windmill26 · 16/05/2023 16:06

I just don't want to act harsh...not harsh to expect adults to take responsibility for their bills
I just want to do the right thing...you are not a charity ,don't give them another pass
I can't afford to pay the mortgage this month...but you will pay it somehow because you are a responsible adult and you know that if you don't the bank will repossess the house

You were never going to come down on them like a tonne of bricks and I think they know it. Don't be surprised if they stop paying rent completely . I don't think being a landlord is for you (accidentally or not) .

JustKeepSlimming · 16/05/2023 16:08

user1477249785 · 16/05/2023 13:28

OP I'm not sure I agree with the advice here. As it happens, I am in exactly the same situation: accidental landlord with previously good tenants now unable to pay on time or in full I have concluded that there is no point applying eg late fees. They are already struggling to pay what they owe so what good would this do? I have also put myself in their shoes and I can only imagine how stressful this must be for them. It's their home and they have children. I don't believe they are being scroungers. I think they - like many - are struggling with the cost of living and doing their best.

My conclusion is that since I can (just about) afford to make it easier for them, I will. Your situation may vary and this might not be an option. But if you do go down the evicting them route, please don't buy into the idea they are scroungers. In all likelihood, they are struggling and stressed out. That doesn't mean you shouldn't evict if you can't afford for them to stay but it does argue for taking any measures in a kind and respectful way.

Good luck.

I agree with this, having been in the same boat.

I'd get in touch with them and ask whether this is likely to be an ongoing situation. For instance, if one of them has lost their job, then it might just be for a couple of months; if it's the general cost of living then maybe the house is just too expensive for them at the moment, and they need to find somewhere else.

I would talk to them in terms of when they might be able to pay the extra so that they don't think they can basically just pay half with no consequences.

Original poster

thisisasurvivor · 16/05/2023 16:11

@JustKeepSlimming agree

It's difficult for everyone

And for the many great bits of advice here thanks

OP posts:

TonTonMacoute · 16/05/2023 16:15

Another accidental landlord here, and I absolutely agree with sitting down and having the talk.

Why didn't they pay the full amount? Exactly why are they struggling? How likely is it that this will keep happening? For how long? You need to get the whole picture from them.

And you need to lay out your side. There seems to be a tendency to think that because you own the house your are obviously better off. That may be true in an overall sense, but you still have monthly outgoings, and if you can't meet them because they aren't paying their rent, then that helps no one. You will have sell up and they need to look for another home - possibly at a higher rent and with a less understanding landlord.

Original poster

thisisasurvivor · 16/05/2023 16:16

If they want to stay in the area houses at this size are 900 to 1100 a month

I charge 600

My mortgage is 580
My landlords insurance is 300

OP posts:

Blancmangemouse · 16/05/2023 16:18

Your message seems rather at odds with the title, there is middle ground between writing off the debt, and tonne of bricks.

Try talking to them and finding out what the issue is, to start with?

lakesummer · 16/05/2023 16:24

OP you need to sit down and work through your costs.
It looks like you currently aren't breaking even when the tenants do actually pay.
You have no spare money to build a replacement and repairs fund.
What do you do when the boiler needs replacing etc.

Why are you renting rather than selling? Are you planning on returning to the house? Do you see it as long term investment based on property prices increasing?

Thebigblueballoon · 16/05/2023 16:37

thisisasurvivor · 16/05/2023 16:16

If they want to stay in the area houses at this size are 900 to 1100 a month

I charge 600

My mortgage is 580
My landlords insurance is 300

Are you sure that they’re not taking advantage of this situation in order to save their own deposit? They’re surely aware that they’re paying £600 instead of the going rate in your area - and they possibly now want to test the waters to see if you’re a soft touch.

LittleOwl153 · 16/05/2023 16:38

Independently of what happens this time you need to be upping your rent. You are causing yourself issues by not having a buffer to pay the mortgage when tenants fail. What happens when they leave and you have a gap or repairs are needed. Presumably also you have tax to pay on the additional income.

Original poster

thisisasurvivor · 16/05/2023 16:40

lakesummer · 16/05/2023 16:24

OP you need to sit down and work through your costs.
It looks like you currently aren't breaking even when the tenants do actually pay.
You have no spare money to build a replacement and repairs fund.
What do you do when the boiler needs replacing etc.

Why are you renting rather than selling? Are you planning on returning to the house? Do you see it as long term investment based on property prices increasing?

Fabulous questions

It was bought between my sister and I

She lived in it for ten years then moved and asked me to help get it rented

I didn't want to but didn't want to leave her stuck

So most likely will need to sell soon as we are not breaking even

OP posts:

BubblinTrouble · 16/05/2023 16:46

See what your tenancy agreement says and then follow that. Typically it’s advised to give them a letter before action - a 14 day /7 day timeframe to pay up. Sometimes this is enough to initiate payment. If not then you’ll have to serve notice in accordance with your tenancy agreement (this may be a section 21 notice or something else. Difficult to advise without seeing the agreement).

I wouldn’t be lenient - they have a contractual commitment and so do you to your mortgage provider. Yes; times are hard but we all have bills to pay.

QueenCamilla · 16/05/2023 16:59

Typically, this is the point where the rent payments slowly dwindle to nothing.

Might as well become a charity now, particularly as OP seems to be inclined that way already.

And I hated the idea of "accidental" landlords when I was renting. I explicitly queried the lettings agents about the status of the landlord. I wanted to rent from someone for whom renting out property is their main business/income.

A proper landlord = good management and the ability to live at the property long term. Not getting kicked out when the sister returns, husband dumps or other such shit.
So all these "accidents" being beneficial to tenants is a rather dubious claim.

SapphireSeptember · 16/05/2023 17:07

My landlord gets arsey if my rent doesn't arrive in his bank account at 3am on the date it's due. He tells me it's late, when I informed him I use a building society he piped down. Also tried to raise my rent without a month's notice and a section 13. Bonus of having a manager at work who is also a landlord, he tells me this stuff.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 16/05/2023 17:44

PsychoHotSauce · 16/05/2023 13:10

Well your mistake was letting them off the half month. I say that as a tenant. I'm sure once I'd got away with half rent one month then it would cease to be as much of a priority bill as it is now.

"Hmm, I could do with £400 for something else, I'll just offer @thisisasurvivor half rent again..."

Accidental landlord or not, you need to get to grips with the legal process with a view to eventually get them out (may not come to that of course but follow that legal pathway).

This ^^

You're also on the wrong forum for this, OP; if you want proper balanced advice without the Landlord hate try this one: https://www.landlordzone.co.uk/

Clarinet1 · 16/05/2023 17:51

I agree with those who say you must
have an open discussion about they situation. Explain that you have overheads and rely on the rent to pay them. However, if you accept their reasons for underpaying (perhaps agreeing to take the arrears from their deposit) and they agree and are able to return to paying in full regularly, perhaps this would be less hassle and actually save you money compared to going through an eviction/court process. Do get everything in writing though and stress that if there is any more short payment you will take legal action and they could end up homeless.

ohdamnitjanet · 17/05/2023 17:48

Your mortgage company wouldn’t let you do that, so they do have to catch up, especially as their rent is low. But all credit to you for being kind and empathetic ♥️