Wheelchair vs buggies. Showdown on the bus

[SweetiePi3]

Today wasn't a good day for me. I had to go to the Princess Royal hospital. I waited for the bus, but when it arrived, the ramp wasn't deploying properly.
After the 3rd attempt, I lined up my chair, and as it came out, hanging an inch or so from the ground, I stormed up the ramp and into the bus.
Coming back, I had to change buses. The bus was full with three buggies in the wheelchair space.
The driver opened the back door and told me he had asked them to make space, but they refused.
I put my good foot in the doorway, preventing him from closing it and driving off.
He told them that I was holding the bus hostage until they made space. One mum folded her buggy, and one moved out of the way.
The third still refused, and while I was trying to explain the law to her, over her shouting, her partner started yelling at me.
I asked them what the sign said, but they said they were there first. I told them that the bus went move until I'm on it.
Meanwhile, people were leaving the bus. They gave in and took their buggy off while I boarded the ramp, then came in after me.
The bus driver drove off with the four of us lined up, one folded buggy, the other two, and me

It must depend on where you live.
Our buses signage says priority seating for people with children or disabilities.
If there's already prams or wheelchairs in these designated areas others are made to wait for the next bus, it's a first come first served.

"Bus drivers refusing to allow wheelchair users onto buses where the wheelchair space is either unoccupied or occupied by people who can readily and reasonably move are committing a crime. They can be prosecuted, given a £500 fine and 3 penalty points."

Parents with a buggy can't always 'readily and reasonably move', for example if there's nowhere to safely stow the pram once folded.

What they've required to do is advise passengers that a wheelchair user needs to board and space must be made.
If the passengers occupying the bus refuse to do so, an announcement that the bus will not move until this is done must be made.

No such announcement 'must be made', a driver can choose to refuse to move if he wants to do that.

They can't kick off paying passengers and if a bus is actually at capacity, they legally can't let anyone else on, even a wheelchair user.

Just to clarify..

@justteanbiscuits
I don’t agree. Under such circumstances, she needed a “treat this buggy as a wheelchair” badge.

But wheel chair users fought for the right to have spaces in public transport ,you might not agree with but luckily the law disagrees
Ad for me Pp I think it's a shame the consultant couldn't give her something so the drivers were obliged to.treat the pram in those particular circumstances as a wheel chair

Everyone has a right to go on public transport, but not to use the wheelchair space. In most places there are far more buggy users that wheelchairs so if wheelchair users want to use the bus they might have to wait for multiple buses with buggies in the wheelchair space to go past.

If you want more buggy space, campaign for it. Don't hijack the spaces disabled people campaigned for and have to option but to use.

Parents with a buggy can't always 'readily and reasonably move', for example if there's nowhere to safely stow the pram once folded.

What they've required to do is advise passengers that a wheelchair user needs to board and space must be made.
If the passengers occupying the bus refuse to do so, an announcement that the bus will not move until this is done must be made.

No such announcement 'must be made', a driver can choose to refuse to move if he wants to do that.

They can't kick off paying passengers and if a bus is actually at capacity, they legally can't let anyone else on, even a wheelchair user.

Just to clarify..

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If there are already 2/3 wheelchair users on the bus, then yes it's fair to say unfortunately there isn't a wheelchair space available and you won't be able to board. It's sad and shit. But one of those things. And at least the spaces were being used by people who were just as in need.

If the spaces are fully occupied by parents with buggies then they should be told they can have a partial refund and get off or they need to collapse their buggy and free up the wheelchair space.

Able bodied parents have choices that disabled people do not. They can use a sling or baby carrier. They can use a small, practical buggy. They can board the bus always ready and prepared to fold it down if needed.

It's nobody else's problem if you have shopping bags and you don't want to hold the baby on your knee and it will be a faff. It's not even remotely comparable to the life of a wheelchair user.

Those spaces were campaigned for and exist only because of disabled people making the effort and pushing for them. They can be used by buggies if they are not occupied but they are a bonus if you get to use one, not a right.

I am increasingly thinking the only option is for the wheelchair space to be kept blocked off unless needed by a wheelchair (including special needs buggies) user. It seems to be the only way they can be guaranteed access to the ONE space on the bus they can safely use.

They have priority by law.

Still can't start kicking people off @lemonaddde no matter how much you'd like that to be the case. It isn't.

I'm afraid the law is on our side, if you can't fold the buggy you must either move out of the way or leave the bus. Alternatively, you can stay in the stopped bus until you choose an alternative. No one can force you to leave and no one can deny me access. You chose to board the bus knowing that it can't be folded or moved out of the way. I didn't choose to be disabled and live with daily pain and discomfort.

They should threaten to put any one who doesn't move for a person with a disability on tick tok

Where did I say they should be kicked off?

Fold the buggy and hold the child, and be prepared for that to happen is what I said.

If they are not prepared or are unable to do that then they should be given a transferable ticket or partial refund.

Yep I agree ,as these threads always show there is a lot people do seem to think having a child is he same as disability, same with blue badge spaces .

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/our-work/news/wheelchair-spaces-buses-must-be-priority-court-rules

Guaranteed those on here whinging about it are also the ones who use the disabled toilets because they can't possibly queue up for a few minutes.

And also just pop their car in a blue badge parking space 'because I was only 5 minutes"

They of course don't want want the disability. But are happy to reap the benefits of resources created to make a disabled persons life more accessible.

I've just survived a bit of an horrendous journey in Britain's 'second city.' No bus for ages, and when I got on (with luggage) the wheelchair section was occupied by a huge pram, an equally huge parent & a child of about 8 or so. I squeezed by with suitcase and sat in a pull-down seat to one side, and tried to keep my suitcase out of the way (no luggage rack).

All was sort of OK, until another parent, also with huge pram, and small child in tow, wanted to get on & demanded I get my suitcase out of the way - yes, but where? Meanwhile, an elderly gentleman using a walking stick was left to balance standing - I offered him my seat and stood, juggling suitcase & backpack, and trying to hang on as well (and I'm over 60 so have no need to offer my seat, even though the 8 year old child was still sitting, grrr, such bad manners).

Each of these prams took up rather MORE room than the standard wheelchair takes up. If someone with mobility difficulties needed to get on - or heaven forfend someone in a wheelchair, I doubt that either parent would have moved or folded or got off he bus. They were obnoxious. Emboldened by this thread, I was ready to intervene if there had been any further passengers needing a seat, because those parents weren't going to.

justteanbiscuits
Actually, there isn't legal priority. The bus driver can ask but there is nothing in law covering it.

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Well someone hasn't done their research🤔

I'm afraid the law is on our side, if you can't fold the buggy you must either move out of the way or leave the bus. Alternatively, you can stay in the stopped bus until you choose an alternative. No one can force you to leave and no one can deny me access. You chose to board the bus knowing that it can't be folded or moved out of the way. I didn't choose to be disabled and live with daily pain and discomfort.

Hi @SweetiePi3. Your interpretation of the law is a little skewed, that's ok. I understand you're angry, however there's no need for such an aggressive tone. I didn't "choose to board a bus knowing it couldn't be folded" or anything of the sort. You seem somewhat irrational.

Buses are only allowed to take one wheelchair at a time. I wish it was the same with buggies. Most tfl Buses would manage.

That poster's issue was with other mums refusing to fold their buggies, not with the wheelchair user.

I agree with the principle, but people with disabilities need additional protections to ensure that they get the same access. If wheelchairs and buggies had parity, wheelchair users would be cast back into the very situation that started their campaign decades ago - unable to access the bus.

If buggy users need additional spaces, they can campaign for them.

I wish only that people could be strapped in a wheelchair for one day, with a thorn in their shoe to provide constant, painful aggravation. Then be left in the rain for an hour before shuffling into a bus home.

I've said this on so many of these threads and posters go mad over it. But I agree, it's the only way to solve this. Otherwise each batch of entitled parents moves along and is replaced by another on the conveyor belt.

Good lord, you're patronising.

Oof - way to be ableist - there we are. Kaboom!

Actually, I have. And as it currently stands, there is no legal requirement. There is a legal requirement for the spaces to be provided, but not a legal requirement to make people vacate it if they're not wheelchair users.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2000/1970/contents/made

There was the court case which has been posted on here, which ruled in the wheelchair users favour, but this has not been reflected in law yet.