Wheelchair vs buggies. Showdown on the bus

[SweetiePi3]

Today wasn't a good day for me. I had to go to the Princess Royal hospital. I waited for the bus, but when it arrived, the ramp wasn't deploying properly.
After the 3rd attempt, I lined up my chair, and as it came out, hanging an inch or so from the ground, I stormed up the ramp and into the bus.
Coming back, I had to change buses. The bus was full with three buggies in the wheelchair space.
The driver opened the back door and told me he had asked them to make space, but they refused.
I put my good foot in the doorway, preventing him from closing it and driving off.
He told them that I was holding the bus hostage until they made space. One mum folded her buggy, and one moved out of the way.
The third still refused, and while I was trying to explain the law to her, over her shouting, her partner started yelling at me.
I asked them what the sign said, but they said they were there first. I told them that the bus went move until I'm on it.
Meanwhile, people were leaving the bus. They gave in and took their buggy off while I boarded the ramp, then came in after me.
The bus driver drove off with the four of us lined up, one folded buggy, the other two, and me

Well then the stop the bus and refuse to move.

You're a badass, bloody good for you!

Right! Thank you!

@OddsocksinmyDocs

Stop the bus and refuse to set off until the wheelchair user is in one of their designated spaces to enable them to travel.

I wouldn't shrug. I would stand up for a vulnerable person and ensure they were not prevented from travelling because someone won't fold down a buggy.

Absolutely and also.older children in special needs buggies ,but in the vast majority of time ,speaking as the parent of a disabled child,it's selfish parents thinking having a child is the same as having a disability.(see also Blue badge versus parent child spaces )
That cause problem,s and f feel entitled.

I wasn't saying that proof of disability should be demanded, just shown to the driver so they are ware and don't require them to fold the buggy. I carry a card, but aren't usually asked to show it, except before 9.30 am. This became a rule during lockdown and was never rescinded.

I always moved for wheelchairs - only once did I try to stand my ground. I had a very poorly newborn, and I had to be at the hospital with him from 10am - 4pm each day (basically, we were allowed home at night with him, but all day, every day, was at the hospital). Parking was £18 at the hospital for the day, and we'd spent a small fortune on the (very limited) parking while he was in SCBU. It was only 2 1/2 miles, but due to 3rd degree tear and bad infection, I just wasn't able to walk it. Two buses were full and I'd finally got on the third bus, already running late for the hospital. As I was last on, when a wheelchair got on it was me that was expected to leave the bus. Due to his condition I'd been advised by his consultant to not remove him from car carrier on buggy base on public transport if possible. I was exhausted, ill, scared and very very stressed.
In the end, I was bullied off the bus.

I'm sorry that happened.

Really, in those circumstances, your buggy was the equivalent of a wheelchair and it was transporting a sick child.

It's not like you were just popping to the shops

That is absolutely unacceptable, I would have given way to you and your baby. I'm sorry that happened to you.

Is that not for disabled rates for travel rather than to access the bus? They can’t turn a wheelchair user away because it’s early morning

Oh, just to clarify, it wasn't the wheelchair I was expecting to miss the bus - we're in London, so there was plenty of space for mine (small, bought with public transport in mind!) and a wheel chair - it was the two other mothers refusing to fold their rather large buggies that were the issue. To this day I don't understand why, in fairly central London, people were buying and using giant buggies!

They didn't refuse me access, just were apologetic about asking for it

If you were in the wheelchair space, you weren't bullied. The wheechair user has legal priority.

Read my next post - large enough space for a pushchair plus wheelchair (I'd seen two small buggies and a wheelchair fit in before. London buses are great for such space). It was the non-wheelchair-owning giant-buggies that bullied me off. And yes, I did explain the situation to them.

I think people are engaging into a lot of "whataboutery"

A person in a wheel chair is more entitled to this space that parents with a non disabled child in a pram. That's it. They had plenty of opportunity to day they're child needed the pram due to a disability and they didn't.

Signs have been placed on my local buses, explicitly telling customers that wheelchair users have priority, quite right.

Actually, there isn't legal priority. The bus driver can ask but there is nothing in law covering it.

I used to live in a country where busses were designed for everyone - literally everyone. There was always enough space for wheelchair users and multiple prams. Because while I know what the law is, parents with prams have exactly the same right to use the bus at a given time as wheelchair users (and no , you can't always fold the pram up and hold the baby, you can't always walk or take a taxi instead). I think the main problem here is cramped busses that weren't designed keeping a population of mixed ages and abilities in mind. We should be demanding better public transport in the UK.

If someone is on the bus with a buggy and decides to get off for a wheelchair user, do they get a refund of their fare? What if it's for part of a journey?
People pay when they get on, so being asked to get off would be a worry

YANBU

That's not the law here. In the UK, wheelchair users have priority.

Because while I know what the law is, parents with prams have exactly the same right to use the bus at a given time as wheelchair users (and no , you can't always fold the pram up and hold the baby, you can't always walk or take a taxi instead).

They have the same right, but not the same provision. If both can't fit in the space, the wheelchair user gets the space. The parent's inability to fold/walk/taxi/whatever is totally irrelevant if they cannot fit in the space.

💝Good for you. I am sorry you had to do this, it shouldn’t have to be the case, but well done for standing (sitting?) up for yourself and showing those foul shouty people up for being insensitive ablists.

The bus driver is legally required to give wheelchair users access to the bus.

"Bus drivers refusing to allow wheelchair users onto buses where the wheelchair space is either unoccupied or occupied by people who can readily and reasonably move are committing a crime. They can be prosecuted, given a £500 fine and 3 penalty points."

What they've required to do is advise passengers that a wheelchair user needs to board and space must be made.
If the passengers occupying the bus refuse to do so, an announcement that the bus will not move until this is done must be made.
The driver cannot compell a buggy user to leave the bus, but can hold the bus until space is made, whatever it takes for that to happen.

I know, and I don't agree with that from an ethical point of view. Public transport is for everyone, and everyone has the same right to get on the bus and stay on the bus as long as they pay for the trip.
For example I think it's shameful that the previous poster who was on the way to hospital with a newborn was required to get off the bus. It might be in accordance with the rules, and the rules are necessary because British buses are too small, but I think it's wrong.