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AIBU?

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Original poster

Yet ANOTHER woman killed by a man

66 replies

tiredsofingtired · 13/05/2023 23:15

34 year old woman in Bournemouth.

31 year old arrested. (On suspicion)

Yesterday it was Suma Begum killed by her husband.

Literally wouldn't surprise me if there's another tomorrow.

So tired if this but we must not become desensitised to this.

Men need to stop killing women.

OP posts:
GuevarasBeret · 15/05/2023 13:41

nokidshere · 15/05/2023 09:39

There's a real issue with male violence. Yes we know it's not all men but until the decent men start calling out bad behaviour then this will continue. There are men standing up and saying this isn't acceptable behaviour. We need more to join them

Absolutely male violence is an issue. The thing that is wrong with your post is that men who abuse, rape and kill women don't usually display that behaviour in front of others so no-one can 'call it out'.

Even if 99.999% of men say that this is unacceptable behaviour there is always going be be murderers. Because people who murder are murderers. And abusers of women will always be abusers of women.

No-one knew that my charming, friendly, sociable 'dad' went home every night for 10yrs and systematically beat up his wife, and his friends and colleagues would have be 'shocked and horrified' that this 'nice man' would ever do such a thing.

You’ll probably find they mostly weren’t.

People notice the sulkiness, the tendency to revenge, the subtle or unsubtle misogyny.

so people may be surprised he went that far, but I guarantee he will have been recognised as someone it would be best not to have to live it.

Naunet · 15/05/2023 14:11

onefinemess · 15/05/2023 09:32

The 0.0001% of men who kill women need to stop.

There, fixed it for you OP.

32 million men in the UK. Rounded up figure of 170 women killed by men each year since 2009. Times x10 for the past decade is 1700.

So yeah, 99.999% of men don't kill women.

And the men who do, don't generally advertise the fact before hand, so the "good men" can't "call out bad behaviour".

Do you want to acknowledge the rapists, attempted murderers, abusers etc as well, or just minimise on men’s behalf for some reason?

Redebs · 15/05/2023 14:18

Ktime · 15/05/2023 09:57

Anyone know why the Suna Begum thread was deleted?

It got a bit racist

Redebs · 15/05/2023 14:23

Men's violence against men is an issue. A horrible, tragic, disgraceful issue. But it is not the same as men's violence against women. They are different types of crimes with different origins and motives. They have different cultural and societal meaning.

If you get stuck into the 'whataboutism' of it not being 'fair', then you are utterly missing the point.

gymorgin · 15/05/2023 14:27

Redebs · 15/05/2023 14:23

Men's violence against men is an issue. A horrible, tragic, disgraceful issue. But it is not the same as men's violence against women. They are different types of crimes with different origins and motives. They have different cultural and societal meaning.

If you get stuck into the 'whataboutism' of it not being 'fair', then you are utterly missing the point.

This a million times over.

kettlebellchips · 15/05/2023 15:08

Redebs · 15/05/2023 14:23

Men's violence against men is an issue. A horrible, tragic, disgraceful issue. But it is not the same as men's violence against women. They are different types of crimes with different origins and motives. They have different cultural and societal meaning.

If you get stuck into the 'whataboutism' of it not being 'fair', then you are utterly missing the point.

Yes, it’s different. But what seems to make it difference is a sense that women who get killed are innocent, but men who get killed share some responsibility for it. That doesn’t sit well with me. ----

Ktime · 15/05/2023 16:22

kettlebellchips · 15/05/2023 15:08

Yes, it’s different. But what seems to make it difference is a sense that women who get killed are innocent, but men who get killed share some responsibility for it. That doesn’t sit well with me. ----

Show quote history

I don't think there is a sense men share responsibility.

But given 97% of murderers are male, it's not unreasonable to ask men to get their house in order. The common issue here is men.

ManyBooksLittleTime · 15/05/2023 17:25

Also, women being killed by men is reported on less. Someone I know witnessed a woman being killed by her ex boyfriend. Googling was ridiculously difficult. Multiple reports on all of the men that have stabbed each other, but hardly any mention of women that have been stabbed to death.

kettlebellchips · 15/05/2023 17:29

Ktime · 15/05/2023 16:22

I don't think there is a sense men share responsibility.

But given 97% of murderers are male, it's not unreasonable to ask men to get their house in order. The common issue here is men.

Show quote history

How do I interpret your second paragraph? That men somehow need to collectively get their house in order. As I sat, when women are killed, they’re innocent, when men are killed, well, they’re not completely innocent.

MovinGroovinBarbie · 15/05/2023 18:18

Male violence is a big issue but I'm not really sure feminists help by trying to frame women as the main victims. It distracts from what could be perhaps the biggest incentive for men to stand together and sort it out - the fact it has a huge impact on them as a demographic.

I also agree with the posters saying that people tend to view men as less innocent - basically what people call victim blaming. This is usually done by lumping all men together so that if they dare speak out on their experiences people will say "stop moaning, you're a bloke. It's you guys that are responsible."

As I said in another recent thread, this group culpability doesn't really hold up. You can try and lump men into a big homogenous group but they can't simultaneously be the victim and the perpetrator. It's ludicrous to expect a gay male to be culpable for the violence visited on him by a homophobic thug. Or a black male to be responsible for racist violence against himself from white police officers. It's also probably quite pointless talking to Eton schoolboys about knife crime in Hackney, or white middle class accountants about radical Islamic violence.

Violence against men is always dismissed. We hear a lot about the two women a week but nothing about the 80 men a week who kill themselves. If it's mentioned the first reply is always that 'women attempt it more'.

However, this line of reasoning seems to usually be employed selectively because when we talk about women being murdered nobody ever points out that in 70% of cases involving one sided violence the women is the perpetrator. What matters is the severity, the fact that women are actually dying. But when it comes to male suicide it's all about the frequency of attempts, not the fact that 40x more men are killing themselves weekly than are killing women.

But usually you won't even get that far because somebody will say "as feminists we focus on women, not men". I've never understood this attitude. How can you focus on gender equality but only care about one sex? Personally I'd never respond to somebody talking about racism with something like "as a white person I prioritise white people's problems, not black people."

I think what gets me going is when feminists claim to be focused on women rather than men but then invest loads of effort proclaiming how much worse off they are and how comparatively easy men have it. It's like starting a big campaign to tackle police violence against white males. It wouldn't take long for people to point out that black males have it much worse. Imagine then telling POC to pipe down because it's not all about them.

And I don't get all these white middle class university educated women who moan on about the evil straight white males. These are literally the men they usually end up marrying and creating more straight white males with.

These women are second in privilege only to their husbands, and many end up being facilitated in working part time long after the kids have grown up, with the man shouldering the mental load of being the main breadwinner whilst being told by feminists he's the privileged one for being able to have the career. I'd much rather be going to the gym and working in an easy job than having a load of corporate stress, especially if the money is shared and I still benefit from my husband's great privilege of breaking his back until 65yo (by which time many women won't have worked full time for 35 years!).

Obv we also have a lot of disadvantages inherent to our sex too, but everybody already knows and acknowledges these in a way that men's problems rarely are.

bunsnroses1 · 15/05/2023 18:30

Male violence is the issue, whether it’s against women or other men.

Imagine if it were, for example, cats that were committing these crimes. There would be hell-up: front page daily tallies of cat crimes, protests in the street, politicians being hauled up infront of committees set up to deal with the cat violence… ‘we must do something about these cats!’

PainfulAnkles · 15/05/2023 18:37

Perhaps you should join male support/acticist/rights group barbie, since you’re always so passionate about male rights and what their going through.
It could be usefull for the men and you. We’d also would be much happier to hear less from you 😌

LittleLegsKeepGoing · 15/05/2023 18:39

I think what gets me going is when feminists claim to be focused on women rather than men but then invest loads of effort proclaiming how much worse off they are and how comparatively easy men have it. It's like starting a big campaign to tackle police violence against white males. It wouldn't take long for people to point out that black males have it much worse. Imagine then telling POC to pipe down because it's not all about them.

You are being ridiculous. That's like saying the RNIB can't campaign for better access to society for blind and visually impaired people because they're not thinking about people who need wheelchairs or have hearing impairment.

Feminists need to focus on women because no one else does. The excellent thing about focusing on women is we can have different emphasis within that remit that aren't opposing but all aiming to achieve better outcomes for the women they concentrate on. Whether that's same sex attraction, being a mother, not being a mother, being a Christian, being Jewish, being Chinese, being Australian - whatever. Plus there isn't a single initiative to support women more and make our lives safer that don't have the same impact on men...with possibly the exception of housing violent male sexual offenders in a make prison.

Concentrating on women and what affects women is never a negative thing, but misogynists like to use it as a weapon in that way.

Pandaparty · 15/05/2023 18:44

Remember ladies, as the support animals, and despite lacking the institutional power and resources that men have, it is your job to make sure your activism centres men and their problems. They can't do it for themselves.
And yes, definitely no point talking about knife crime to boys at Eton - who will, in 15 years, be running the country. Why would they need to bother their heads about it?

Floralie · 15/05/2023 18:44

MovinGroovinBarbie · 15/05/2023 18:18

Male violence is a big issue but I'm not really sure feminists help by trying to frame women as the main victims. It distracts from what could be perhaps the biggest incentive for men to stand together and sort it out - the fact it has a huge impact on them as a demographic.

I also agree with the posters saying that people tend to view men as less innocent - basically what people call victim blaming. This is usually done by lumping all men together so that if they dare speak out on their experiences people will say "stop moaning, you're a bloke. It's you guys that are responsible."

As I said in another recent thread, this group culpability doesn't really hold up. You can try and lump men into a big homogenous group but they can't simultaneously be the victim and the perpetrator. It's ludicrous to expect a gay male to be culpable for the violence visited on him by a homophobic thug. Or a black male to be responsible for racist violence against himself from white police officers. It's also probably quite pointless talking to Eton schoolboys about knife crime in Hackney, or white middle class accountants about radical Islamic violence.

Violence against men is always dismissed. We hear a lot about the two women a week but nothing about the 80 men a week who kill themselves. If it's mentioned the first reply is always that 'women attempt it more'.

However, this line of reasoning seems to usually be employed selectively because when we talk about women being murdered nobody ever points out that in 70% of cases involving one sided violence the women is the perpetrator. What matters is the severity, the fact that women are actually dying. But when it comes to male suicide it's all about the frequency of attempts, not the fact that 40x more men are killing themselves weekly than are killing women.

But usually you won't even get that far because somebody will say "as feminists we focus on women, not men". I've never understood this attitude. How can you focus on gender equality but only care about one sex? Personally I'd never respond to somebody talking about racism with something like "as a white person I prioritise white people's problems, not black people."

I think what gets me going is when feminists claim to be focused on women rather than men but then invest loads of effort proclaiming how much worse off they are and how comparatively easy men have it. It's like starting a big campaign to tackle police violence against white males. It wouldn't take long for people to point out that black males have it much worse. Imagine then telling POC to pipe down because it's not all about them.

And I don't get all these white middle class university educated women who moan on about the evil straight white males. These are literally the men they usually end up marrying and creating more straight white males with.

These women are second in privilege only to their husbands, and many end up being facilitated in working part time long after the kids have grown up, with the man shouldering the mental load of being the main breadwinner whilst being told by feminists he's the privileged one for being able to have the career. I'd much rather be going to the gym and working in an easy job than having a load of corporate stress, especially if the money is shared and I still benefit from my husband's great privilege of breaking his back until 65yo (by which time many women won't have worked full time for 35 years!).

Obv we also have a lot of disadvantages inherent to our sex too, but everybody already knows and acknowledges these in a way that men's problems rarely are.

Literally never read or heard anyone respond to the statistic that more men commit suicide with 'well women attempt it more'. Also never heard anyone be dismissive of men being violent to other men. None of what you have listed takes away from the fact that violent men are the issue. In this case the discussion in centred on violence towards women- do you have an issue with women discussing something that affects them greatly?

And I don't get all these white middle class university educated women who moan on about the evil straight white males.

Not sure what this is actually relating to, but yes some men do seem to take issue with women holding men to account for their actions and wanting to make things safer for women. That only translates to hate towards evil straight men if you want to be seen as a victim.

many end up being facilitated in working part time long after the kids have grown up, with the man shouldering the mental load of being the main breadwinner whilst being told by feminists he's the privileged one for being able to have the career.

Where to even start with this one.

Ktime · 15/05/2023 18:46

kettlebellchips · 15/05/2023 17:29

How do I interpret your second paragraph? That men somehow need to collectively get their house in order. As I sat, when women are killed, they’re innocent, when men are killed, well, they’re not completely innocent.

Show quote history

Come back when 97% of killers are women, not men.

jeffgoldblum · 15/05/2023 18:55

MovinGroovinBarbie · 15/05/2023 18:18

Male violence is a big issue but I'm not really sure feminists help by trying to frame women as the main victims. It distracts from what could be perhaps the biggest incentive for men to stand together and sort it out - the fact it has a huge impact on them as a demographic.

I also agree with the posters saying that people tend to view men as less innocent - basically what people call victim blaming. This is usually done by lumping all men together so that if they dare speak out on their experiences people will say "stop moaning, you're a bloke. It's you guys that are responsible."

As I said in another recent thread, this group culpability doesn't really hold up. You can try and lump men into a big homogenous group but they can't simultaneously be the victim and the perpetrator. It's ludicrous to expect a gay male to be culpable for the violence visited on him by a homophobic thug. Or a black male to be responsible for racist violence against himself from white police officers. It's also probably quite pointless talking to Eton schoolboys about knife crime in Hackney, or white middle class accountants about radical Islamic violence.

Violence against men is always dismissed. We hear a lot about the two women a week but nothing about the 80 men a week who kill themselves. If it's mentioned the first reply is always that 'women attempt it more'.

However, this line of reasoning seems to usually be employed selectively because when we talk about women being murdered nobody ever points out that in 70% of cases involving one sided violence the women is the perpetrator. What matters is the severity, the fact that women are actually dying. But when it comes to male suicide it's all about the frequency of attempts, not the fact that 40x more men are killing themselves weekly than are killing women.

But usually you won't even get that far because somebody will say "as feminists we focus on women, not men". I've never understood this attitude. How can you focus on gender equality but only care about one sex? Personally I'd never respond to somebody talking about racism with something like "as a white person I prioritise white people's problems, not black people."

I think what gets me going is when feminists claim to be focused on women rather than men but then invest loads of effort proclaiming how much worse off they are and how comparatively easy men have it. It's like starting a big campaign to tackle police violence against white males. It wouldn't take long for people to point out that black males have it much worse. Imagine then telling POC to pipe down because it's not all about them.

And I don't get all these white middle class university educated women who moan on about the evil straight white males. These are literally the men they usually end up marrying and creating more straight white males with.

These women are second in privilege only to their husbands, and many end up being facilitated in working part time long after the kids have grown up, with the man shouldering the mental load of being the main breadwinner whilst being told by feminists he's the privileged one for being able to have the career. I'd much rather be going to the gym and working in an easy job than having a load of corporate stress, especially if the money is shared and I still benefit from my husband's great privilege of breaking his back until 65yo (by which time many women won't have worked full time for 35 years!).

Obv we also have a lot of disadvantages inherent to our sex too, but everybody already knows and acknowledges these in a way that men's problems rarely are.

What the bloody hell has this extensive load of old cobblers have to do with this poor woman being murdered?
And bold to presume all the women reacting to this terrible crime are all feminists!
Women are allowed to discuss women's issues without centering and prioritising men's feelings and egos !

purpleboy · 15/05/2023 19:15

JFC moovin
All that twaddle and you could've just said "the poor menz"

Seriously though coming onto a thread about MVAW and talking about male suicide stats or Eton boys is so depressing. Go and start a thread about those topics if your so passionate about them, leave the rest of us who give a shit about these murdered women alone to keep raising awareness.

pigsDOfly · 15/05/2023 19:31

How does a thread about yet another woman being killed at the hands of a man turn so rapidly into a thread about how many men are killed at the hands of other men?

Sockloon · 15/05/2023 19:40

🙄So how many lives do you suggest would be saved, by men calling other men out.

Do you think some one intent on murdering another human being is going to stop because another chap said its not a nice thing to do FGS.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 15/05/2023 19:42

Ktime · 15/05/2023 09:57

Anyone know why the Suna Begum thread was deleted?

Because it degenerated into cut and paste jobs all saying pretty much that only Muslim men kill women.

PainfulAnkles · 15/05/2023 19:45

pigsDOfly · 15/05/2023 19:31

How does a thread about yet another woman being killed at the hands of a man turn so rapidly into a thread about how many men are killed at the hands of other men?

Because women’s rights and violence againts women is forbidden.

Don’t you know, everything is about men.
Why won’t anyone think of the men?!?!?

NeverTrustAPoliceman · 15/05/2023 19:51

A woman I know was told repeatedly by her husband that he wouldn't kill her.

Because if he did he would no longer be able to batter her on an almost daily basis.

Thankfully she managed to escape a couple of years ago.

Usetherightgearforthehill · 15/05/2023 20:02

onefinemess · 15/05/2023 09:32

The 0.0001% of men who kill women need to stop.

There, fixed it for you OP.

32 million men in the UK. Rounded up figure of 170 women killed by men each year since 2009. Times x10 for the past decade is 1700.

So yeah, 99.999% of men don't kill women.

And the men who do, don't generally advertise the fact before hand, so the "good men" can't "call out bad behaviour".

Then after that you can add in the men who beat women but don't get to the point of killing them. Or the ones who financially or emotionally abuse women. The ones who rape, or sexually assault. Then the ones who sexually harass women. The flashers. The men who prey on single women with children so they can abuse the children.

But sure not all men of course. Mustn't forget to add that just in case.

You didnt fix anything for the OP despite your patronising little sentence. The OP said nothing wrong

Usetherightgearforthehill · 15/05/2023 20:18

MovinGroovinBarbie · 15/05/2023 18:18

Male violence is a big issue but I'm not really sure feminists help by trying to frame women as the main victims. It distracts from what could be perhaps the biggest incentive for men to stand together and sort it out - the fact it has a huge impact on them as a demographic.

I also agree with the posters saying that people tend to view men as less innocent - basically what people call victim blaming. This is usually done by lumping all men together so that if they dare speak out on their experiences people will say "stop moaning, you're a bloke. It's you guys that are responsible."

As I said in another recent thread, this group culpability doesn't really hold up. You can try and lump men into a big homogenous group but they can't simultaneously be the victim and the perpetrator. It's ludicrous to expect a gay male to be culpable for the violence visited on him by a homophobic thug. Or a black male to be responsible for racist violence against himself from white police officers. It's also probably quite pointless talking to Eton schoolboys about knife crime in Hackney, or white middle class accountants about radical Islamic violence.

Violence against men is always dismissed. We hear a lot about the two women a week but nothing about the 80 men a week who kill themselves. If it's mentioned the first reply is always that 'women attempt it more'.

However, this line of reasoning seems to usually be employed selectively because when we talk about women being murdered nobody ever points out that in 70% of cases involving one sided violence the women is the perpetrator. What matters is the severity, the fact that women are actually dying. But when it comes to male suicide it's all about the frequency of attempts, not the fact that 40x more men are killing themselves weekly than are killing women.

But usually you won't even get that far because somebody will say "as feminists we focus on women, not men". I've never understood this attitude. How can you focus on gender equality but only care about one sex? Personally I'd never respond to somebody talking about racism with something like "as a white person I prioritise white people's problems, not black people."

I think what gets me going is when feminists claim to be focused on women rather than men but then invest loads of effort proclaiming how much worse off they are and how comparatively easy men have it. It's like starting a big campaign to tackle police violence against white males. It wouldn't take long for people to point out that black males have it much worse. Imagine then telling POC to pipe down because it's not all about them.

And I don't get all these white middle class university educated women who moan on about the evil straight white males. These are literally the men they usually end up marrying and creating more straight white males with.

These women are second in privilege only to their husbands, and many end up being facilitated in working part time long after the kids have grown up, with the man shouldering the mental load of being the main breadwinner whilst being told by feminists he's the privileged one for being able to have the career. I'd much rather be going to the gym and working in an easy job than having a load of corporate stress, especially if the money is shared and I still benefit from my husband's great privilege of breaking his back until 65yo (by which time many women won't have worked full time for 35 years!).

Obv we also have a lot of disadvantages inherent to our sex too, but everybody already knows and acknowledges these in a way that men's problems rarely are.

Male violence is a big issue but I'm not really sure feminists help by trying to frame women as the main victims. It distracts from what could be perhaps the biggest incentive for men to stand together and sort it out - the fact it has a huge impact on them as a demographic.

So basically you are trying to say that we have to incentivise men to stop killing women by making it about them? I mean you probably aren't wrong but maybe men could make it about them, they are pretty good doing that after all, and women could just have a little space to make it about themselves. Also this is a thread in AIBU not feminist. It's likely a lot of the posters are feminists, but not necessarily all of them so why are you blaming feminists for 'framing the problem wrong by centering women"

Violence against men is always dismissed. We hear a lot about the two women a week but nothing about the 80 men a week who kill themselves

Oh we do, we hear about it in almost all threads about male violence. What you seem to be missing is that the two things are probably connected and fixing one might fix the other. Also again, why can women not have a space to talk about things affecting women without having to include men. Because the thing I have never seen is in spaces where men are discussing male suicide, men being berated for not talking about things affecting women.

But usually you won't even get that far because somebody will say "as feminists we focus on women, not men". I've never understood this attitude. How can you focus on gender equality but only care about one sex? Personally I'd never respond to somebody talking about racism with something like "as a white person I prioritise white people's problems, not black people."

I actually had a man explain this really well to me last week. It's about centering the people who are most affected by a problem. No one says 'black lives matter' because they believe all lives don't matter. They say black lives matter because black people are the ones impacted. And you seem to be equating the position women are in to the position white people are in. They reality is in many ways women do not have full equality. Therefore in your badly drawn analogy it would be more accurate to say when discussing racism 'as a black person I prioritise black people's problems not white peoples'. Do you still have a problem with that?

It's like starting a big campaign to tackle police violence against white males. It wouldn't take long for people to point out that black males have it much worse. Imagine then telling POC to pipe down because it's not all about them.

It's like starting a big campaign to tackle police attitudes to domestic violence against women. It wouldn't take long for people to point out that men have it much worse. Imagine then telling women to pipe down because its not all about them. Oh wait no, you don't have to imagine that you just did it.

And I don't get all these white middle class university educated women who moan on about the evil straight white males. These are literally the men they usually end up marrying and creating more straight white males with.

Can you point to the proof that we are all white middle class university educated women please? I for example am a mixed race working class woman. I am university educated. I am first generation university educated and my grandmother was a prostitute so I've don't pretty well. I'm not sure how that means I'm not allowed to have an opinion on male violence especially given my university education didn't stop me from being in an abusive relationship when I was at uni.

These women are second in privilege only to their husbands, and many end up being facilitated in working part time long after the kids have grown up, with the man shouldering the mental load of being the main breadwinner whilst being told by feminists he's the privileged one for being able to have the career. I'd much rather be going to the gym and working in an easy job than having a load of corporate stress, especially if the money is shared and I still benefit from my husband's great privilege of breaking his back until 65yo (by which time many women won't have worked full time for 35 years!).

Shut up and put up because some women work part time? No thanks.

Obv we also have a lot of disadvantages inherent to our sex too, but everybody already knows and acknowledges these in a way that men's problems rarely are.

And one of those disadvantages means that men are more likely to kill us than we are to kill them. We have a right to talk about those. If men don't want to talk about their problems women don't have to stop talking about theirs. We aren't all over pistol heads telling men not to talk about suicide because women get raped. The only people trying to stop anyone talking about their problems are people like you

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