Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Am I encouraging my child to bully?

35 replies

parenthoodseason · 13/05/2023 20:07

Three girls on my street, all 10 years old. My daughter, sammy and Katy (fake names).

My daughter and Sammy are very close, they play out as much as they can, sammy comes on day trips with us and vice Versa my daughter with her family. Tonight they're having a sleepover.

Katy has joined in with them a handful of times but each time Sammy and my daughter have reported she tells them to shut up, always threatens to tell her mum on them, and when Katy's been in my house, she seems nice enough but a bit off socially.

Anyways it got to the point that my daughter and Sammy were actively avoiding her. They would play in my garden rather than out at the park as they didn't want to bump into her. Sammy's mum came to my door saying that katy is feeling left out. She said she is having problems at school and now at home and can't catch a break. I emphasised with her and said I'd talk to my daughter.

My daughter was really upset and refused to play with her saying she is mean and doesn't like her. Sammys mum spoke to her and got the same.

About 6 months went by and they hadn't played with katy. However last week katy came to the door, my daughter, Sammy and daughters friend for school were all out the back garden and I let katy go out.

They played for about half an hour then I had to drop the school friend home. On the way home the school friend said that katy had called her stupid and told her to shut her mouth and my daughter said she had broken her gymnastics beam (checked when I got home and it wasn't broken, there was a mark on it not a big deal).

So tonight daughter and Sammy are having a sleepover and katy keeps cycling back and forth the house and garden on her bike looking in. My daughter is asking me to say that she can't play with them tonight if she knocks.

On one hand I feel rotten, the poor girl, but there's definitely some social issues that are resulting in the girls not wanting to play with her. I don't feel I should force my daughter to play with someone she doesn't want to but I know if roles were reversed I would be heartbroken.

My daughter (so far) has sailed through school and is quite popular, however, I know this is purely luck and there by but the grace of god go I. So trying to handle the situation sensitively.

AIBU?

OP posts:
Aspargustips · 13/05/2023 20:10

Why do you think it’s bullying?

that kid sounds horrible so I wouldn’t make my child play with them

Tempone · 13/05/2023 20:11

That's not bullying, it's not wanting to be friends with someone. "Xxxx and Sammy don't want to play today."

Your daughter doesn't have to extend friendship to everyone.

Tempone · 13/05/2023 20:13

Your daughter needs your encouragement to to tell Katy, she isn't friend because she isn't being kind and using kind words.
Your daughter doesn't have to roll over and be treated badly.
You sound quite passive op, maybe afraid of conflict, probably a good idea to build up assertiveness in your dd.

Notimeforaname · 13/05/2023 20:15

The child and the mother need to be told her behaviour upsets the other girls. Avoiding it is just adding lies to it.

BreadInCaptivity · 13/05/2023 20:19

I'd argue that bullying in this context is parents forcing their children to engage with other children they don't get on with.

From what you have posted the two friends have legitimate reasons why they don't want to play with Katy.

They are not bullying her. They don't like the fact she is mean to them.

They are not being mean by excluding her, they don't want to be exposed to her newness by including her.

Honestly this socialisation of girls to #bekind at all costs is just getting silly.

Hotfootgoose · 13/05/2023 20:19

Your daughter is actively trying to stay away from a bully, and you are feeling guilty?! Why?? I wouldn’t want my child playing with Katy, she sounds awful. Your daughter is doing the right thing. She is protecting the friendships she enjoys and rejecting toxic ones, that is what she is supposed to do. You can’t try to convince her to accept nasty behaviour in case the bully feels excluded.

BreadInCaptivity · 13/05/2023 20:20

*Meanness not newness

Hankunamatata · 13/05/2023 20:22

Awkward situation. If Katys parents wants to tackle this they need to do 1:1 playdates, supervised at all times at their house probably with set activities.

It's not your problem to solve and no you don't have to force your daughter to play with her. However I'm a sucker in cases like this. I'd probably arrange do what I suggested parents do above. Activity with the three girls such as crafts or something with you being the forth person so adult supervised at all times, reminding Katie of manners and see how it goes.

switswoo81 · 13/05/2023 20:29

Look I'm just playing Devils Advocate here. It's always good to see both sides in these cases but is there any possibility she is not saying these things. (I'm just thinking that your daughter said she had broken the beam but it wasn't broken and you said she seems nice enough) and that the two girls just don't want to play with her. Groups of three often don't work in friendship situations at that age.
As I said you know the situation better.

Lefteyetwitch · 13/05/2023 20:35

For generations, girls have been conditioned to be accommodating and to push aside their feelings and want to make sure they are as welcoming and inclusive as possible. And that's how we end up with so many twats because they were never corrected.

If it's true if it's not it dos matter. They don't want to socialise with her. And they don't need to. Ever.

So if the mum comes again be honest. Say they don't want to be friends. Smile and close the door.

minisoksmakehardwork · 13/05/2023 20:44

It sounds like your daughter and Sammy don't like Katy - they've made up a lie about breaking the beam. You don't say you've ever heard Katy being unkind to them when you've got them at yours, and as they've said this a few times I would expect you were keeping a reasonable eye on them when Katy is with you.

To me, it sounds like your daughter and her friend are excluding Katy and being unkind. This may be happening at school as well if they're all at the same school.

That said, I do believe that people should not have to be friends with others just because they live on the same street or are in the same class. Just tell Katy and the mum that the girls don't want to play at the moment. And be aware when they're all playing outside that it could be 50/50 as to who is being unkind.

BreadInCaptivity · 13/05/2023 20:57

minisoksmakehardwork · 13/05/2023 20:44

It sounds like your daughter and Sammy don't like Katy - they've made up a lie about breaking the beam. You don't say you've ever heard Katy being unkind to them when you've got them at yours, and as they've said this a few times I would expect you were keeping a reasonable eye on them when Katy is with you.

To me, it sounds like your daughter and her friend are excluding Katy and being unkind. This may be happening at school as well if they're all at the same school.

That said, I do believe that people should not have to be friends with others just because they live on the same street or are in the same class. Just tell Katy and the mum that the girls don't want to play at the moment. And be aware when they're all playing outside that it could be 50/50 as to who is being unkind.

An alternative narrative about breaking the beam lie is because the girls are not being listened to about the reasons (meanness) from Katy, so they are exaggerating other events to make themselves heard.

switswoo81 · 13/05/2023 21:00

But they hadn't seen her in 6 months at this point so was there any need to exaggerate / lie about this.

SnackSizeRaisin · 13/05/2023 21:09

At school they should not exclude anyone but who they want to play with in their own time is up to them.

Imagine you're at work with a socially awkward colleague. You would include them in coffee room chat, speak to them at the work Xmas do etc. But you wouldn't invite them to your house or socialise outside work.

Original poster
parenthoodseason · 13/05/2023 21:13

Katy and Sammy are at same school but luckily my daughter is at a different one.

OP posts:
Ontheperiphery79 · 13/05/2023 21:15

Your daughter has made it very clear that she does not want to play with, nor be friends with, this girl.
Why are you not respecting your child's boundaries and foisting this other girl upon her again?!
I feel for the excluded child, but it's not your daughter's burden to carry.

minisoksmakehardwork · 13/05/2023 22:12

In light of new information that Katy and Sammy go to the same school, I wonder if they are friends in school and Katy and OP's daughter are struggling with sharing their friend in different spaces? Ie outside of school.

To give an example, my youngest dd, with send, has struggled to make friends due to strongly formed friendships at her primary school. Her classmates have grown up together, family friendships go back generations. Dd doesn't have a regular friend. She desperately wants to be friends with a couple of girls. Occasionally they let her join in. Sometimes they don't. When one isn't there, the other will be 'best friends' with dd. But drop her like a hot potato when they other is back. Leaving dd confused as to what she's done wrong. Even school have said it is nothing she is doing. But sometimes when this happens, she reacts badly, she can be mean. Say things that upset. She has hurt her classmates before (rightly punished as we don't condone violence).

As I said, when one isn't there, they get one well. We've had the girls over to play with dd, separately. But as a 3, the girls just do not get on well.

This could be exactly what is happening here and OP's dd is the friend stuck between two others who don't know how to play as a 3.

minisoksmakehardwork · 13/05/2023 22:15

And I still don't think OP's dd should have to play with Katy. Just be mindful of agreeing that Katy is not a nice child. Especially in front of the other girls. Because you don't see her 24/7. You don't know what she's like in school with Sammy. You know from her mum she struggles. Her mum might not want to say that Sammy is mean to Katy in school, or Katy and Sammy get on well in school.

Girls can be bloody mean and vindictive. At all ages. At least boys scrap it out and then make up again.

WunWun · 13/05/2023 22:18

I would kindly tell the mum what's happening if she asks again

NotReallyBotheredByThis · 13/05/2023 22:21

If your kids don't want to associate or play with this child it's not "bullying".

In my mind it'd be closer to "bullying" to make them play with her....

OMalleysAlley · 13/05/2023 22:34

WunWun · 13/05/2023 22:18

I would kindly tell the mum what's happening if she asks again

I agree. If the mum asks again I'd tell her that honestly Katy has said nasty things to the other girls, tell her exactly what Katy has said, and that therefore the girls doesn't want to play with her.

The mum needs to know the truth in order to help her daughter.

nighthawk99 · 13/05/2023 23:02

Watch how you handle this Op, because excluding one girl seems to be the dynamic in small friendship groups, and then when they get bored of that,choosing someone else to exclude
. Next month it could well be Sammy and Katy excluding your child,,,

Suspific · 13/05/2023 23:07

I think when we see children making exclusionary preferences we question whether it is bullying or not.

But as adults I'm not friends and certainly not equal friends with everyone I know. I'm not unkind about it but I'm not spending my free time with people who I don't get on particularly well with.

So no, your daughter isn't bullying; she is displaying preferences which you should respect. Especially if you agree with her reasoning.

Soproudoflionesses · 13/05/2023 23:14

I could have written this op. It is ok fot your dd not to want to be friends with someone they don't parricularly like

MargaretThursday · 14/05/2023 00:04

On the way home the school friend said that katy had called her stupid and told her to shut her mouth and my daughter said she had broken her gymnastics beam (checked when I got home and it wasn't broken, there was a mark on it not a big deal).

This makes me wonder if there is a lot more to it. A mark on the beam cannot have been seen as "broken". if she'd said "spoilt" then I'd think it was dramatic, but possibly your dd might have thought it. Broken sounds like they were trying to get her into trouble.
Could it even be they told her it was broken, and Katie had responded with "no it isn't, don't be stupid"?

Swipe left for the next trending thread