to think that protests do make a difference and do bring about change?

[cakeorwine]

Linked to the thread about protests and the new law.

Over the history of the world, there have been protests. Some peaceful, some disruptive.

And some of them have brought about change.

Gandhi and his non violent resistance.
Rosa Parks
Anti-Vietnam protests.

I am sure there are a lot more.

I wonder what this world would look like if people didn't stand up for their beliefs and weren't able to protest easily.

And it looks like it's getting harder to protest.

You're right up to a point, but the ones I went on in my youth didn't bear much fruit (CND).
And millions protesting (I wrote to my MP rather than go to London) against the Iraq war didn't make any difference as both Labour and Conservative MPs supported it.

Protests can make a difference. They can help, hinder or make no difference to a cause. To add to the list were protests helped or made no difference, there are a few where protests hindered a cause. The U.K. Student protests in 2011/12 hurt their plea to not triple tuition fees. Insulate Britain, Just Stop Oil and XR have also hindered their causes with their protests.

Protests don’t work without violence. Whether that’s violence on the part of the protesters or violence visited upon the protesters. The ‘non-violent’ protests worked because of the shock value of the beatings they took.

They definitely make a difference. If nothing else they give a voice to the weak - that is why Tories do everything they can to suppress protest.

Protesting is a great British tradition, it is disgusting the government have sought to make peaceful protest a crime. We already had laws to deal with disruption.

The Stop The War protest did not stop the war, but it made a massive political difference re. Blair and it was very important to show that the public did not support what the government was doing. Without that protest the government could have claimed everyone backed them.

The poll tax riots brought down Thatcher - protests can work if they capture the zeitgeist.

The violence in the student protests is exactly why the protests hurt their cause. The violence done by the suffragettes also set back the cause for women to get the vote by decades.

Violence by protesters is usually counter productive.

I protested a lot in my youth - Clause 28, Apartheid, CND, poll tax. It felt powerful and protests really mattered because change came.
But then Iraq happened - biggest protests I'd ever known - I couldn't believe Blair would ignore us but he did.

Ignoring millions of people bringing London to a halt has become the playbook for all subsequent governments. They know they don't have to do a damn thing.

Protest is vital for a healthy society imo.
I'm deeply concerned at the new legislation.

Regardless of whether it changes things, lawful protest matters. It’s important for people to be able to express their views about issues that affect them particularly when there’s so little opportunity to do so through the ballot box. This legislation is deeply concerning - a transparent government has nothing to fear from peaceful protest.

They weren’t violent enough. The protesters’ violence needs to threaten a breakdown of law and order or the brutality of the violence visited on non-violent protestors undermines the legitimacy of the state power, in order for those in power to acquiesce. Peaceful happy clappy protest is easy to ignore and easy to undermine especially now with the media, social media manipulation and apathy of the general population. Virtually any form of effective protest has been made practically illegal and there’s been hardly any opposition to this and many in the media and apathetic populace in fact support it as evidenced in some of the responses in this thread.

There have been large demonstrations in London - and for every person on a demonstration, how many more there must be at home who feel that way but couldn't make it to the demonstration.

I worry about the effect of this new leglisation - and how easy it is to criminalise someone attending a demonstration.

Sorry, I do not agree. The level of violence you are talking about isn’t protest but full on civil unrest.

If protests could change anything they would be made illegal.

Over the past three decades western governments have sought to create what I call the "Independent Electorate" societal model.

That is a voting public who exist within the constraints of a society made up of individuals or indivdual households. Neighbours no longer talk to one another, we are actively discouraged from interacting with our work colleagues, let alone complete strangers. Services have been put in place to allow the elderly to live (mostly alone) in their own homes for as long as possible. Technology encourages remote working, communication and monitoring.

The result of all this "indivdualism" is a society which is made up of isolated individuals. Which at first sounds like a progressive utopia, however, a society made up of individuals is a weak society. People may disagree with particular aspects of government policy, but because of their relative isolation, feel that they, as a lone indivdual, are powerless to fight back.

Group think is a powerful motivator, by keeping people apart, their indivdual motivation can be subdued.

Look at the recent protests by JSO, a dozen individuals were able to block the movement of thousands of vehicles, and yet the drivers sat meekly inside their indivdual metal boxes, too afraid to do anything about it. Had there been a stronger sense of community those drivers would have felt motivated and empowered to act. But they did nothing.

Ask yourself this, what would it take to get YOU to march in the street?

Would you, as an individual, ever leave your house and protest without any prior communication or encouragement from others? It's doubtful. And it's that very "isolationist" ideology which allows governments to "rule over" citizens.

Unfortunately we have now lost the freedom to protest, nobody could be bothered to do anything to stop the new laws being passed.

It's sad to see how weak we have become. What a shameful example we have set for future generations.

Correct, you need a “popular uprising” to effect real change. Compare the ineffective cnd campaign mentioned above and the successful poll tax protests/riots.

Civil unrest is always a protest.

Yes, protests do change things. But they need to be sustained and continuous (eg the 10+ years of street sit-ins by Dutch mothers, mostly, to force the government to stop cars/roads killing their kids and move towards a cycling culture instead. One bike path was built as a test and it worked but it took a generation)

I think protests are fine and practically every weekend there’s about 3 or more going on in Westminster.
what is not fine is disruption for everyone else whilst you protest and I lose support immediately for any cause that uses violence and loud megaphones can be included in this sometimes ( depending on location)
I am also not a fan of counter protests. So republicans should be allowed to protest without royalist s screaming in their faces and likewise vice versa.
also people should have consideration for others so for example at a pride March, people with anti LGBT views who not turn up. Yes it is free speech to say protest a Pride March ( for example) but that is for every one and you should consider the occasion etc before inflicting your free speech on others.

I don't know - perhaps they do, but it would take some proving!

I think after all the protests at Greenham Common against the Pershing Missiles, it was other reasons which led to the dismantling of the airbase - mainly the breakdown of the Soviet Union and the end of the Cold War - not anything those protesters did. Sometimes perceptions of long-term protests such as that and the one in Parliament Square can be counter-productive and alienate public opinion.

(Different topic but does anyone remember when Dave Gilmour's son faced charges for climbing on the Cenotaph and mucking about - probably about 7 or 8 years ago?? Can't even remember what he was protesting against.

Anyway, in court he claimed he didn't know what the Cenotaph was - and didn't mean any disrespect. OK - so he's a highly-privileged celebrity's child from North London who was studying history at Cambridge, but he didn't know what that funny thing in Whitehall was. A likely story.

That's the sort of protest I think is truly pathetic.) I'm all for peaceful marches but not riots or vandalism.

The Greenham Common protest absolutely did play a big part in the removal of US cruise missiles. It also continued until the base was returned to common land.
Sheer persistence can and does work. Law breaking is justified in order to stop greater harm.
Look at Greta and the change of opinion and the discussion one young dedicated girl brought about.

Even if they don't bring about change I think the coming together as a voice to express disapproval is extremely important for society

The blm protests I don't feel they did

A huge aspect of protest is of course to bring issues to public attention.
We need to protest, for example, when police murder women. We must not let the wrongdoing or negligence of institutions/ government be brushed under the carpet.

No. They’re two separate things. Protests can escalate into civil unrest which can escalate into a revolution. Sort of like an acorn is not an oak tree.

It seems many posters so far are in favour of the right to protest, as long as it is for a cause they agree with.

It's OK for anti-royalists to protest at the Coronation, but not OK for anti-LGBT to protest at a Pride march. It's OK to protest against the Poll Tax, but not OK to protest outside family planning abortion clinics. It's OK to protest against apartheid, but not OK to protest against immigration outside hotels housing asylum seekers.

Fortunately, the new law ignores the cause being pursued, but regulates the conduct of all protests by trying to minimise any disruption. All the examples mentioned above would be subject to it.

As for those condoning violent protest - If I come across some idiot glueing themselves to the road, or singing hymns outside an abortion clinic, is it really OK for me to protest against their cause and kick them in the teeth? After all it might make a difference and bring about change.

But everything is collapsing, maybe civil unrest is exactly what we need. We are being drained dry.