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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Any female insight welcome!

65 replies

Cluelessidiot · 09/05/2023 23:13

Apologies for the intrusion here - I’m not a mum or female but I have been aimlessly googling and contemplating and a few searches directed me to Mumsnet threads that were full of useful advice and thought I’d give it a bash.

im a few weeks away from 40. Currently living with my elderly mum who is in the last few months of her life. Challenging time but trying to make it as ‘nice’ as possible. I broke up with a girlfriend of 5 years two years ago, it was for the best and ultimately the right person hasn’t come along since. Not as easy to meet people in late 30’s and I’m usually v busy with my own business.

when I was 24, I did a post grad and met an incredible girl. She was 18: if I’m honest my mates ripped the piss out of me for her age, look back and cringe a bit. She was utterly stunning too and a nice person, we had a lot in common. Initially we had a ‘FWB’ relationship. She was hard to read and I played hard to get. Absolutely pathetic on reflection but there we are. She always seemed a lot older than her years and had recently suffered a very traumatic sibling death. I’m a bit apprehensive about revealing too much detail in case she reads here tbh but it was truly awful. She often spoke about her separated parents quite negatively and didn’t really reveal much about them aside from that she didn’t get on with her mum at all. She spoke a lot about her sibling and I was very conscious that she’d been through a lot.

I quickly fell for her tbh. She showed absolutely no indication she wanted more. We had quite an intense relationship, was much more than just sex. I could give examples but reluctant to do so incase she reads here. This shamefully went on for 4 years until one day she messaged me and said she loved me but had met someone. I didn’t interpret this to mean that she was ‘in’ love with me and frankly I thought about her for a good few years after and often thought about her. I learned through the grapevine that she’d got married.

I bumped into her at a hotel event last week. Absolutely out of body experience. She hadn’t changed a bit and was just as beautiful as I remember. We ended up going to the bar upstairs and chatted from 5pm - 2am but it felt like 2 mins. Long story short, I broke her heart. I don’t want to add too many details, but it transpires that her childhood was extremely traumatic and just thinking of how much she carried during that times makes me feel very emotional and protective of her. She didn’t tell me because she “didn’t want to put me off” and actually our casual relationship (with lots of affection and couple in all but name and commitment) really caused her a lot of pain even though she was quite embarrassed to suggest so. I could just tell. She said I was her lifeline at that time and the only person she had emotional/physical intimacy with. She was an absolute socialite at the time, friends everywhere but her family circumstances were very very difficult. I wish I’d known.

the chemistry was absolutely unreal and it was like no time had passed over the years. She is extremely successful and I’m really proud of everything she’s achieved. She is recently separated from her husband and has a 3 year old. I asked about her husband and marriage and she said that she had no interest in meeting anyone new because she’d never want her daughter to have to experience other men in her home because she doesn’t have the interest in meeting someone and spending time getting to know them at a cost of time with her daughter.

not sure where I’m going or what I’m expecting the advice to do but what would you suggest in these circumstances? We have exchanged numbers and have been texting multiple times daily. She’s not flirty but very familiar and we always did get along very well. Is it appropriate to ask to see her again? I am not usually this clueless but when I say that I can’t believe I am speaking to her it’s the biggest understatement imagineable.

OP posts:
4plusthehound · 10/05/2023 02:32

Cluelessidiot · 09/05/2023 23:13

Apologies for the intrusion here - I’m not a mum or female but I have been aimlessly googling and contemplating and a few searches directed me to Mumsnet threads that were full of useful advice and thought I’d give it a bash.

im a few weeks away from 40. Currently living with my elderly mum who is in the last few months of her life. Challenging time but trying to make it as ‘nice’ as possible. I broke up with a girlfriend of 5 years two years ago, it was for the best and ultimately the right person hasn’t come along since. Not as easy to meet people in late 30’s and I’m usually v busy with my own business.

when I was 24, I did a post grad and met an incredible girl. She was 18: if I’m honest my mates ripped the piss out of me for her age, look back and cringe a bit. She was utterly stunning too and a nice person, we had a lot in common. Initially we had a ‘FWB’ relationship. She was hard to read and I played hard to get. Absolutely pathetic on reflection but there we are. She always seemed a lot older than her years and had recently suffered a very traumatic sibling death. I’m a bit apprehensive about revealing too much detail in case she reads here tbh but it was truly awful. She often spoke about her separated parents quite negatively and didn’t really reveal much about them aside from that she didn’t get on with her mum at all. She spoke a lot about her sibling and I was very conscious that she’d been through a lot.

I quickly fell for her tbh. She showed absolutely no indication she wanted more. We had quite an intense relationship, was much more than just sex. I could give examples but reluctant to do so incase she reads here. This shamefully went on for 4 years until one day she messaged me and said she loved me but had met someone. I didn’t interpret this to mean that she was ‘in’ love with me and frankly I thought about her for a good few years after and often thought about her. I learned through the grapevine that she’d got married.

I bumped into her at a hotel event last week. Absolutely out of body experience. She hadn’t changed a bit and was just as beautiful as I remember. We ended up going to the bar upstairs and chatted from 5pm - 2am but it felt like 2 mins. Long story short, I broke her heart. I don’t want to add too many details, but it transpires that her childhood was extremely traumatic and just thinking of how much she carried during that times makes me feel very emotional and protective of her. She didn’t tell me because she “didn’t want to put me off” and actually our casual relationship (with lots of affection and couple in all but name and commitment) really caused her a lot of pain even though she was quite embarrassed to suggest so. I could just tell. She said I was her lifeline at that time and the only person she had emotional/physical intimacy with. She was an absolute socialite at the time, friends everywhere but her family circumstances were very very difficult. I wish I’d known.

the chemistry was absolutely unreal and it was like no time had passed over the years. She is extremely successful and I’m really proud of everything she’s achieved. She is recently separated from her husband and has a 3 year old. I asked about her husband and marriage and she said that she had no interest in meeting anyone new because she’d never want her daughter to have to experience other men in her home because she doesn’t have the interest in meeting someone and spending time getting to know them at a cost of time with her daughter.

not sure where I’m going or what I’m expecting the advice to do but what would you suggest in these circumstances? We have exchanged numbers and have been texting multiple times daily. She’s not flirty but very familiar and we always did get along very well. Is it appropriate to ask to see her again? I am not usually this clueless but when I say that I can’t believe I am speaking to her it’s the biggest understatement imagineable.

This really stood out to me -
She was hard to read and I played hard to get
followed by this
I was very conscious that she’d been through a lot.

This younger you was selfish. Very selfish. Took the good (for you) but walked away from the rest.

So the question is - who are you now? What type of man are you now?

She is a person who has pain in her heart. Life threw a lot at her. You could be a person who walks with her. Or a person who takes from her.

Summer2424 · 10/05/2023 02:45

Hi @Cluelessidiot I would ask if she wants to meet up. If she does great but if she doesn't just continue being there for her. Hope things workout for you.

gwenneh · 10/05/2023 02:46

she said that she had no interest in meeting anyone new because she’d never want her daughter to have to experience other men in her home because she doesn’t have the interest in meeting someone and spending time getting to know them at a cost of time with her daughter.

I'm curious, why you don't believe her? She's already told you what she thinks and what she wants.

Summer2424 · 10/05/2023 02:48

@Cluelessidiot sorry about your Mum 😔

Cluelessidiot · 10/05/2023 07:05

4plusthehound · 10/05/2023 02:32

This really stood out to me -
She was hard to read and I played hard to get
followed by this
I was very conscious that she’d been through a lot.

This younger you was selfish. Very selfish. Took the good (for you) but walked away from the rest.

So the question is - who are you now? What type of man are you now?

She is a person who has pain in her heart. Life threw a lot at her. You could be a person who walks with her. Or a person who takes from her.

Totally fair. She was stunning initially so I was very interested but also wasn’t (at that time in my life) wanting a relationship so fairly early on made that clear. She claimed to feel the same. Fairly soon after I started having feelings for her and suppose I assumed it would eventually develop into more. I used to ask her if she wanted more but she’d always say no. I mentioned this and she said “but you framed it in a way which suggested that if I said I wanted more, you would end it because that wasn’t what you wanted”. in all honestly, we were a couple in all but name and I can see on reflection how this would have been very confusing for her. We knew each other for 4 years - after the first year and a half I was conscious that it wasn’t right and said I wanted to remain friends and made the decision to stop sleeping together. Guess I thought she’d tell me at that point if she wanted more; god knows why I didn’t just tell her then but I regretted that a lot for years after.

we did eventually start sleeping together again but not with regularity like previously. I’d graduated at this point and moved away and she used to visit me about once a month. Then a couple of years later out of the blue I saw she’d deleted me on social media and when I questioned her by text as to why, she said she loved me but had met someone. It transpires that she hadn’t but “didn’t want to frame her message as an ultimatum”. I never contacted her again.

who was I then? Someone who really cared about her but yes, I was stupid and selfish. She was a catch and images were impressed. Not proud of this.
who am I now? Same person obviously but I’m not naive: I take full responsibility for my actions then.

I wasn’t suggesting she was damaged in any way but the context is relevant because I want to be mindful of this. The fact that she was so breezy about it spoke more volumes bizarrely. I suppose it was the classic case of “you don’t know what others are dealing with” and I’m pretty ashamed now.

OP posts:
Cluelessidiot · 10/05/2023 07:13

gwenneh · 10/05/2023 02:46

she said that she had no interest in meeting anyone new because she’d never want her daughter to have to experience other men in her home because she doesn’t have the interest in meeting someone and spending time getting to know them at a cost of time with her daughter.

I'm curious, why you don't believe her? She's already told you what she thinks and what she wants.

Not suggesting that I don’t believe her at all. She said it in a jokey kind of way but ultimately that she’d have to weed out predators (she mentioned her mum had a lot of boyfriends and her experience wasn’t positive so I can read between the lines here) and she wasn’t prepared to invest the considerable effort and time this would take. She really does sound like an amazing mum and her daughter clearly means the absolute world to her.

im being honest here, but I obviously know I don’t fall into the above category 😂 that sounds creepy written down and like I say this with motive when she has expressed otherwise but it’s true. We’re not exactly strangers to each other but at the same time this is no guarantee we’d end up together forever which I guess is what she’s trying to avoid for her daughter (disruption). What I’m saying is that I understand it’s a different ball game when kids are involved and this is perhaps why I was interested in a female perspective.

OP posts:
Cluelessidiot · 10/05/2023 07:15

Cluelessidiot · 10/05/2023 07:05

Totally fair. She was stunning initially so I was very interested but also wasn’t (at that time in my life) wanting a relationship so fairly early on made that clear. She claimed to feel the same. Fairly soon after I started having feelings for her and suppose I assumed it would eventually develop into more. I used to ask her if she wanted more but she’d always say no. I mentioned this and she said “but you framed it in a way which suggested that if I said I wanted more, you would end it because that wasn’t what you wanted”. in all honestly, we were a couple in all but name and I can see on reflection how this would have been very confusing for her. We knew each other for 4 years - after the first year and a half I was conscious that it wasn’t right and said I wanted to remain friends and made the decision to stop sleeping together. Guess I thought she’d tell me at that point if she wanted more; god knows why I didn’t just tell her then but I regretted that a lot for years after.

we did eventually start sleeping together again but not with regularity like previously. I’d graduated at this point and moved away and she used to visit me about once a month. Then a couple of years later out of the blue I saw she’d deleted me on social media and when I questioned her by text as to why, she said she loved me but had met someone. It transpires that she hadn’t but “didn’t want to frame her message as an ultimatum”. I never contacted her again.

who was I then? Someone who really cared about her but yes, I was stupid and selfish. She was a catch and images were impressed. Not proud of this.
who am I now? Same person obviously but I’m not naive: I take full responsibility for my actions then.

I wasn’t suggesting she was damaged in any way but the context is relevant because I want to be mindful of this. The fact that she was so breezy about it spoke more volumes bizarrely. I suppose it was the classic case of “you don’t know what others are dealing with” and I’m pretty ashamed now.

’mates’ not images.

OP posts:
MushMonster · 10/05/2023 07:30

The big question is why did you not snatch her off the shelf all those years ago? Why did you not 100% commit to her then? Playing the hard to get? Have a good thinking about this. There was a reason why you did not ask her to be your girlfriend/ fiance/ wife. And furthermore, you just let her go to another guy without putting a fight.
Maybe you like her very much, but not as a life partner. I think this is a sad line, very difficult to spot and see clearly.
If you do love her, though, you need to tell her and ask her out on dates.

SinglePonders · 10/05/2023 07:35

The way you write and more you go on, the clearer it becomes that you should just leave her be.

Parisj · 10/05/2023 07:44

I think you might find it helpful to understand avoidant and disorganised attachment styles - she has been affected by trauma and you don't scream clarity about how to relate in healthy ways. Its helpful to remember to be boundaried but openhearted, communicate directly but with vulnerability and honesty about feelings, to not try to be a rescuer etc. Look up the drama triangle, you are already being viewed as oscillating between various roles. Its exciting, and it could be good, but look to learn healthy relationship advice to protect yourself and her.

StoatofDisarray · 10/05/2023 07:55

SinglePonders · 10/05/2023 07:35

The way you write and more you go on, the clearer it becomes that you should just leave her be.

I tend to agree. The bit where you said she was confident but not immodest stood out for me. Quite odd phrasing.

Cluelessidiot · 10/05/2023 07:58

StoatofDisarray · 10/05/2023 07:55

I tend to agree. The bit where you said she was confident but not immodest stood out for me. Quite odd phrasing.

I meant that she is confident but seems to lack self esteem. Ie it’s a bit of a front.

OP posts:
Persiana · 10/05/2023 08:11

I think you need to untangle your thoughts and feelings. Are you yearning for an earlier time and want to recreate that with her now? it stuck out that you say she looks the same, beautiful etc. Are you prepared to really understand this time what she's been through, what that means for her and you if you were to start a relationship? Is there any part of you that just wants sex? Are you prepared to go really slowly, never expect to move in and live with her anytime soon, her daughter will always come first and you will never be able to ask her to choose you. I suppose essentially do you really truly love and respect her, and she is worth you choosing an unconventional relationship in order for it to be with her?
I also didn't like your not immodest comment, to me that screams of a man who has conflicted views over women being confident and seeing this as somehow negative - is too much confidence immodest?! Why should women be modest? This rings major alarm bells for me

Cluelessidiot · 10/05/2023 08:29

Can see what you mean by that comment. Absolutely not my opinion, I was raised by a very strong, confident single mum (as it happens, she never met anyone after my dad either). Meant it as a compliment.

can’t deny that there is an element of nostalgia but she was always the one I thought of over the years. Yes I am prepared to follow her lead

OP posts:
BreatheAndFocus · 10/05/2023 08:30

I think you should let your emotions settle a bit first. It’s easy to be impulsive or make rash decisions when you’re in an emotional state. Wait till you feel less intense. Then, I’d just concentrate on being her friend (if she wants that) and see how things go.

To me, there’s something very unattractive about a pushy man, and with having children that’s just heightened.

ForgottenNurseryRhymes · 10/05/2023 08:34

Just enjoy what she is prepared to offer you. It may progress, it may not.

OrlandointheWilderness · 10/05/2023 09:34

When you met first time around she was 18 - she WAS an adult. By the time you stopped she was 23, old enough to have a mature relationship. You went by what she said and the impression she gave you - if she didn't tell you how important it was how are you supposed to know!? I wouldn't beat yourself up over it tbh, from your perspective she wanted a casual FWB thing.
Just stay in touch and see where it goes.

OrlandointheWilderness · 10/05/2023 09:39

Do be aware on MN you may well get far harsher treatment as a man posting than you would as a woman.

Having read your updates she literally told you she didn't want any more, are people meant to be mind readers now?! You did nothing wrong - you didn't use her at all. You had what appeared to be an equal relationship on the same page, the fact that you both had things unsaid is bloody stupid but does not mean you treated her badly.

TallulahBetty · 10/05/2023 09:46

OrlandointheWilderness · 10/05/2023 09:34

When you met first time around she was 18 - she WAS an adult. By the time you stopped she was 23, old enough to have a mature relationship. You went by what she said and the impression she gave you - if she didn't tell you how important it was how are you supposed to know!? I wouldn't beat yourself up over it tbh, from your perspective she wanted a casual FWB thing.
Just stay in touch and see where it goes.

THIS!! I think you're getting some harsh responses here.

Either way though, you have both been through the mill and have lots on your plates - build a friendship and be happy with that - if anything else comes of it then that's a bonus. Good luck!

GiveOverRover · 10/05/2023 09:49

Cluelessidiot · 10/05/2023 00:53

Maybe. But it’s amazing how quickly you can pick up where you left off.

Isn't it. So where's that as far as your concerned? For her it was when she got the guts to break it off with the older guy who was playing hard to get and using her as a bereaved teenager with low self esteem after a traumatic upbringing.

You don't seem to have any understanding at all of who she is, even after a five hour chat and the benefit of a few years of you growing up.

Did you miss the bit where she said

she said that she had no interest in meeting anyone new

Leave her be, you've caused her enough of a headache for this lifetime, believe me. She's got your number, if there's any chasing to be done, let her do it. If this is a second chance at anything it's a second chance to show her some respect, and not the respect that will get you back into her knickers, but mean it.

OrlandointheWilderness · 10/05/2023 09:57

@GiveOverRover she was an adult dating another adult! Hardly older guy territory- it's only 5 years, and she was just as much playing hard to get from the posts! Seriously, she was a woman and visualising her as a delicate little flower is bloody demeaning and condescending. When I was 18 I had been through a fair bit, but I didn't need treating like kid gloves and I damn well knew my own mind.

OrlandointheWilderness · 10/05/2023 09:58

*with!

5128gap · 10/05/2023 10:01

Quite honestly I think you've enough on your plate at the moment. Tempting as it is to create a diversion from the situation at home and carve out something for you, I don't think this is the right thing.
As a young man you may or may not have unwittingly exacerbated the emotional damage of a vulnerable young woman. You didn't recognise it at the time, and you can't turn back the clock and undo it now, so the best thing you can do is move on from that.
Tbh a successful woman in her mid 30s (?) with a marriage under her belt, wanting to rehash heartbreak from her teens sounds like she either still has some emotional complexities, or is rather dramatic. Either way, as gorgeous as she is, is this really what you need right now?

GiveOverRover · 10/05/2023 10:04

I'm not suggesting she was a delicate flower. I'm reading the information and can see that OP was playing "hard to get" and their casual relationship really caused her a lot of pain. He can see on reflection that it would have been very confusing for her.

"...you framed it in a way which suggested that if I said I wanted more, you would end it because that wasn’t what you wanted”.

There is a big difference between 18 and 24, especially if the 18 year old has lost a sibling in a traumatic death.

The OP mentions that he feels ashamed looking back, which he wouldn't do if it had been an equal situation and his behaviour had been equally in both of their favours.

DancedByTheLightOfTheMoon · 10/05/2023 10:04

Once bitten, twice shy as they say.
I would contact her again and say you understand her situation, would she be interested in meeting up as friends ? Be prepared to take things very slowly, all good things take time. You both have different set of responsibilities now but no reason why you can't develop a deep friendship and go from there. Good luck to both of you.