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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AiBU and should I have more sympathy?

45 replies

Froglet84 · 09/05/2023 06:31

My mother is very narcissistic. She always has been and always will be. As a child everything revolved around her. She is abusive to my Dad and overbearing to people around her. The older I’ve got, the more I realise she is a product of a) her traumatic past (which she recreated for my sibling and I) and b) she’s likely neurodiverse and doesn’t get social cues. I struggle to understand her lack of awareness on certain things as she is extremely intelligent and often she seems to consciously know what she’s doing and gets a kick out of people’s reactions. She
loves being controversial.

She moved to a rural village several years ago and made a great social scene. This involved her suddenly placing this social scene above all else. An example of this being when she went to drinks with friends on Christmas Eve, despite having invited my siblings up for Xmas who arrived after a 4 hour journey to an empty house in chaos with a 3 month old baby.

Mum has a way of socially isolating herself by coming across as if she is the “great oracle” and expert at everything.
most conversations she has with other people are broadcasts. I have tried to subtly teach her some social skills but she genuinely thinks she is superior to people and will criticise everyone mercilessly as they don’t meet her high standards.

Before Covid hit, she discovered Facebook and became a key board warrior and would give into arguments online here there and everywhere. It was embarrassing as you’d see it come up on my feed and she insisted on befriending lots of my friends, so they’d often tell me about it. I tried teaching her etiquette but again it fell on deaf ears. She is such an “oracle” she’d often repost my posts and then Say that she posted it first and therefore was far more of a trendsetter than I was (thinking this was something I aspired to be?!). During the year before covid she essentially lost a ton of friends by calling them out on Facebook as racists. She likes to think she’s done this subtlety because she’s use articulate wording but it’s very transparent. She started an unholy war against a family in the village because “the village”wanted social venues and this family were converting them venue into a house: living accommodation. She claimed to be great friend with the family but was fuelling all sorts against them online. The family now don’t talk to anyone in the village. She was instrumental in this online bullying. She has now turned everything she did into “mediating”, as she puts it.

During covid she became a bit depressed as people didn’t ring or call her and she became socially isolated (we of course called regularly and FaceTimed and sent photos and messages). As I was a key worker, she actually got to see more of the kids than others did as she & Dad became part of our bubble. She’s didn’t seem to grasp that people not contacting her was possibly down to her actions.

My Dad has retired now and has become a bit of a social butterfly as her runs various events for a few of the clubs he belongs to. He’s loving it and uses it as an opportunity to be away from my Mums verbal and emotional abuse of him. (We have tried to get him help but he doesn’t identify as needing it- we’ll keep offering it though).

mum befriends vulnerable people. Probably because they are easy to befriend as they themselves are lonely. For example people with terminal illness or frail or those who are more nervous. She always goes in a crusade to try to “better them” whether they like it or not. It’s way overstepping boundaries.

I need to point out that DP live in a small rural village. Mum keeps saying she’s been helping people “even when they don’t want it, but I know they need it” giving them financial advice (which she reads off money saving forums). She’s fallen out with several people over this and when we try to say that she needs to stop she ways she sees it as her duty to help people. Reader she is not helping people, she is making them angry and embarrassed.

she had recently started this manipulative cycle of moaning to my sibling and I, that the village are ostracising her and that “all she has ever done is support people and help”. She did this before when we lived in a city and at the time, being young I didn’t realise what she was doing to cause it. Being in a city, she could move from social group to social group making the same
mistakes.

she’s really down about it and now trying to coerce my dad into giving up what he loves doing. She says she went to community event the other day and tried to sit at several tables with people but they kept telling her seats were taken. She said she sat on her own and then left. My Dad was working behind the scenes, so he didn’t know. My sibling told me that they noticed people laughing at her behind her back, when they went to a community event together. My sibling said they were rolling their eyes about her when she wasn’t looking. That seems quite mean but I can’t help but feel she’s been really openly critical to people and now it’s payback eg “you’re all so boring and old” or “this place is so primitive” or “you don’t know what xyz is? Culturally ignorant the lot of you” or the time she strongholds a 80 year old man into opening a bank account he didn’t want because she “can’t stand to see him make no interest on his savings” and then not understand why he got mad! She didn’t even see how this was dodgy grounds!!!

How do I help her help herself and stop making these monumental Mistakes or AIBU and she’s the innocent party? I’ve tried subtly and not so subtly explaining what she’s doing or done and what is and isn’t ok. I don’t know what to do next. Is it a lost cause?

if you read this far, then go you and thank you

OP posts:
Firebrickblue · 09/05/2023 06:40

There are a lot of similarities here with my mum. Particularly the narcissism (also based on past trauma and being neurodivergent I think) and also the general feeling like she’s superior and constant abuse of my dad. I was (am) constantly embarrassed too. Sadly after a lot of counselling i have realised that there is absolutely nothing you can do. You just have to leave them to it. You can’t exhaust yourself trying to make up for their behaviour or repair their mistakes and they have to reap what they sow. My mum will never see anything from anyone else’s perspective and yours sounds similar, it’s just impossible for them so we can’t help them to see it if that makes sense. It’s really tough to have a mother like that, I hope you get support yourself x

Poppyblush · 09/05/2023 06:42

Sorry but you can’t help her. She needs to help herself.

Zoopadee · 09/05/2023 06:50

It kind of sounds like you are doing the same thing as her though, she's forcing her help unwanted on others, is asking how to help her help herself not just doing the same thing?
I think it sounds like it would fall on deaf ears anyway and I think you need to just leave her to it.

Shoxfordian · 09/05/2023 06:56

Yabu to think you can do anything about this behaviour; this is who she is

Gtsr443 · 09/05/2023 06:56

You are overly invested in your mother's life.
Step back.
She is who she is.

unsync · 09/05/2023 07:16

You can't help or change a narc. They do not see that they are the problem.

Why do you feel you have to do this? You are not responsible, she is. Although narcs never believe they are responsible or accountable so she will never understand what you tell her. For them, it is always other people, not them. They are better than and superior to others.

Stop giving yourself grief. People have seen her for what she is. You cannot fux this.

unsync · 09/05/2023 07:17

Or fix it even!

lemonchiffonpie · 09/05/2023 07:37

How do I help her help herself and stop making these monumental Mistakes or AIBU and she’s the innocent party? I’ve tried subtly and not so subtly explaining what she’s doing or done and what is and isn’t ok. I don’t know what to do next. Is it a lost cause?

You cannot change her. You cannot force anyone to change - but you particularly cannot change her. Step back and work on your enmeshment issues that make you think she - a grown adult, albeit a pain in the arse - is your responsibility to parent and "fix".

ferneytorro · 09/05/2023 07:44

I know I’m repeating everyone else but - step away, stop trying to educate her, don’t get involved, cut down your interactions and when she tries to involve you in her drama don’t engage.

i get you feel embarrassed by her but work on that, she’s not your responsibility, she does what she does, it’s not a reflection on you. Let other people who she is insulting or whatever fight their own battles.

you aren’t in charge of her!

Fanda26 · 09/05/2023 07:48

Step back. You cannot help her or control her actions. She will never change because she has no interest in changing.

I would keep trying to ensure your dad keeps doing his separate activities

Hotfootgoose · 09/05/2023 07:50

You will never fix this or help her as she is “above” your advice. The village have started to fight back by the sound of it. I wouldn’t help her, she is reaping what she sowed

BakedTattie · 09/05/2023 07:56

You can’t help her. If she is a narc, she won’t listen to you anyway.

id go very low contact. I know she’s your mum but she sounds horrible.

Iwantmyoldnameback · 09/05/2023 08:01

Sorry but when you described people rolling their eyes and almost hiding from her I thought of the Bucket woman.

I don't know what you can do that you haven't tried already, leave her to it.

SquirrelSoShiny · 09/05/2023 08:09

She sounds like an ex friend of mine. He was both autistic and narcissistic. I wasted several years of my life trying to help him see the world through a different lense. He was incapable of insight or change because he didn't see any need to change. He was perfect; it was the rest of the world that was flawed. His capacity for vengeance and cruelty was something I had never seen up close before.

Step back from her emotionally is my advice. She is what she is.

Froglet84 · 09/05/2023 08:16

Thanks. I think I feel responsible as she has a pattern of making screw ups and then having a breakdown when she can’t handle the repercussions. I usually step in and ensure she gets the right care when she does this. However I realise this is toxic and have been trying not to pick up the pieces lately. But I guess I’m doing exactly that now. It’s so hard when she claims to not understand why people are mean to her, I feel she genuinely doesn’t get the social nuances and so I have to explain it to her. But you are right, I don’t. That’s not my responsibility, that’s hers to pick up.

OP posts:
SquirrelSoShiny · 09/05/2023 08:21

The other thing with ex friend was befriending vulnerable people, deciding how to help them (whether they wanted it or not), then turning on them when they didn't act as he thought they should. He would be outraged at their ingratitude, hurt and then become vicious.

I kept thinking that with patience he would change. He didn't.

Dymaxion · 09/05/2023 08:39

Mine is similar, also lives in a small village. Its very difficult. If I try to explain situations from others viewpoints, she gets upset and then very nasty, she cannot be wrong under any circumstances.

Dymaxion · 09/05/2023 08:55

My mother is very narcissistic. She always has been and always will be

This is the first line of your post @Froglet84 , she is who she is and does and will continue to do what she has always done. Nothing you say will make the slightest bit of difference. It is sad because she could have a much happier life if she dialled it back a bit and realised the error of her ways, but that isn't how she functions. Flowers

duvetcovereddissident · 09/05/2023 09:01

Sounds like she has had a busy, happy and popular life, and you don't like her.

Sounds like she is very assertive with ups and downs, but this isn't your problem and you need to step back and stop trying to control someone who does not want to be controlled.

I doubt she would get a diagnosis of "narcissism".

PegasusReturns · 09/05/2023 09:08

@duvetcovereddissident is that what you really think or are you just being AIBU style
contrary?!

the mother sounds awful but I guess your post shows there is someone for everyone, OP perhaps all is not lost?

Ponoka7 · 09/05/2023 09:19

"I doubt she would get a diagnosis of "narcissism""

Probably not, but would these days be diagnosed somewhere on the Neurodiverse spectrum, if not a personality disorder.

OP just like autistic children can't be talked out of their traits, adults can't either. Some with help mask and gain more social skills. The trauma in her background adds another dimension. She will be in set patterns of survival/coping strategies. It's sad because it is an isolating way of being. There's only so much you can do and you do need to step back.

Ponoka7 · 09/05/2023 09:21

@PegasusReturns, when described, some children who are autistic and some with LD's sound awful. Children who are ND etc grow up and we then have challenging adults.

duvetcovereddissident · 09/05/2023 09:25

PegasusReturns · 09/05/2023 09:08

@duvetcovereddissident is that what you really think or are you just being AIBU style
contrary?!

the mother sounds awful but I guess your post shows there is someone for everyone, OP perhaps all is not lost?

she doesn't sound "awful"

She sounds like a bit of a busybody maybe. She sounds like she has been happy, popular, influential, etc, in a way that the OP hasn't liked, and has tried to change - but she has no right to try and change the personality of her mother. The OP certainly doesn't have any moral high ground here. The Op has "tried to subtly teach her social skills" and " tried to teach her etiquette" that she clearly doesn't want! and why should she? he is her own person, not the OP.

She befriends people she gives them financial advice, whatever - people are not being forced to accept this, they are choosing to. Have a bit more faith in the general population! The word "narc" does not make someone into some wort of witch that can force people to do things against their will.

She certainly cant force someone into opening a bank account against their will 😂

The OP has a father who she has "tried to help - but he does not identify as needing help"

The OP just needs to back off, and let them live their lives as they want. Go low contact, if you want, OP, just pop down and visit occasionally and listen to moans, there is nothing unusual or "narc" here I really don't think. You just are a different person to your mother. She wants to be the way she is, and she has the right to be her own person, and you don't have any right to try and make her into someone else.

Sounds like she has a big personality.

duvetcovereddissident · 09/05/2023 09:27

Somebody isn't "narc" because you don't like them.

Calling somebody "narc" doesn't give you the moral high ground, or make you right and them wrong, or give you any right to try and change them.

PegasusReturns · 09/05/2023 09:29

I’m not sure what your point is here?

the OP describes an intelligent women who behaves badly to get a reaction. That’s not ok.

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