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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AiBU and should I have more sympathy?

45 replies

Froglet84 · 09/05/2023 06:31

My mother is very narcissistic. She always has been and always will be. As a child everything revolved around her. She is abusive to my Dad and overbearing to people around her. The older I’ve got, the more I realise she is a product of a) her traumatic past (which she recreated for my sibling and I) and b) she’s likely neurodiverse and doesn’t get social cues. I struggle to understand her lack of awareness on certain things as she is extremely intelligent and often she seems to consciously know what she’s doing and gets a kick out of people’s reactions. She
loves being controversial.

She moved to a rural village several years ago and made a great social scene. This involved her suddenly placing this social scene above all else. An example of this being when she went to drinks with friends on Christmas Eve, despite having invited my siblings up for Xmas who arrived after a 4 hour journey to an empty house in chaos with a 3 month old baby.

Mum has a way of socially isolating herself by coming across as if she is the “great oracle” and expert at everything.
most conversations she has with other people are broadcasts. I have tried to subtly teach her some social skills but she genuinely thinks she is superior to people and will criticise everyone mercilessly as they don’t meet her high standards.

Before Covid hit, she discovered Facebook and became a key board warrior and would give into arguments online here there and everywhere. It was embarrassing as you’d see it come up on my feed and she insisted on befriending lots of my friends, so they’d often tell me about it. I tried teaching her etiquette but again it fell on deaf ears. She is such an “oracle” she’d often repost my posts and then Say that she posted it first and therefore was far more of a trendsetter than I was (thinking this was something I aspired to be?!). During the year before covid she essentially lost a ton of friends by calling them out on Facebook as racists. She likes to think she’s done this subtlety because she’s use articulate wording but it’s very transparent. She started an unholy war against a family in the village because “the village”wanted social venues and this family were converting them venue into a house: living accommodation. She claimed to be great friend with the family but was fuelling all sorts against them online. The family now don’t talk to anyone in the village. She was instrumental in this online bullying. She has now turned everything she did into “mediating”, as she puts it.

During covid she became a bit depressed as people didn’t ring or call her and she became socially isolated (we of course called regularly and FaceTimed and sent photos and messages). As I was a key worker, she actually got to see more of the kids than others did as she & Dad became part of our bubble. She’s didn’t seem to grasp that people not contacting her was possibly down to her actions.

My Dad has retired now and has become a bit of a social butterfly as her runs various events for a few of the clubs he belongs to. He’s loving it and uses it as an opportunity to be away from my Mums verbal and emotional abuse of him. (We have tried to get him help but he doesn’t identify as needing it- we’ll keep offering it though).

mum befriends vulnerable people. Probably because they are easy to befriend as they themselves are lonely. For example people with terminal illness or frail or those who are more nervous. She always goes in a crusade to try to “better them” whether they like it or not. It’s way overstepping boundaries.

I need to point out that DP live in a small rural village. Mum keeps saying she’s been helping people “even when they don’t want it, but I know they need it” giving them financial advice (which she reads off money saving forums). She’s fallen out with several people over this and when we try to say that she needs to stop she ways she sees it as her duty to help people. Reader she is not helping people, she is making them angry and embarrassed.

she had recently started this manipulative cycle of moaning to my sibling and I, that the village are ostracising her and that “all she has ever done is support people and help”. She did this before when we lived in a city and at the time, being young I didn’t realise what she was doing to cause it. Being in a city, she could move from social group to social group making the same
mistakes.

she’s really down about it and now trying to coerce my dad into giving up what he loves doing. She says she went to community event the other day and tried to sit at several tables with people but they kept telling her seats were taken. She said she sat on her own and then left. My Dad was working behind the scenes, so he didn’t know. My sibling told me that they noticed people laughing at her behind her back, when they went to a community event together. My sibling said they were rolling their eyes about her when she wasn’t looking. That seems quite mean but I can’t help but feel she’s been really openly critical to people and now it’s payback eg “you’re all so boring and old” or “this place is so primitive” or “you don’t know what xyz is? Culturally ignorant the lot of you” or the time she strongholds a 80 year old man into opening a bank account he didn’t want because she “can’t stand to see him make no interest on his savings” and then not understand why he got mad! She didn’t even see how this was dodgy grounds!!!

How do I help her help herself and stop making these monumental Mistakes or AIBU and she’s the innocent party? I’ve tried subtly and not so subtly explaining what she’s doing or done and what is and isn’t ok. I don’t know what to do next. Is it a lost cause?

if you read this far, then go you and thank you

OP posts:
PegasusReturns · 09/05/2023 09:30

PegasusReturns · 09/05/2023 09:29

I’m not sure what your point is here?

the OP describes an intelligent women who behaves badly to get a reaction. That’s not ok.

Sorry that was directed at @Ponoka7

Cosmosforbreakfast · 09/05/2023 09:34

Unfriend her on FB, tell your friends you don't want to hear anything about her FB posts. Then just leave her to it. You can't change these kind of people. Distance yourself from her, limit your contact with her. Her problems aren't yours.

5128gap · 09/05/2023 09:43

Your mother is not an extention of you. She is a separate autonomous individual. You have no need to feel responsible for her actions or embarrassed and ashamed by her. If the association with her makes you uncomfortable, in the event you're judged by proxy, limit public contact and disassociate on SM.
Free yourself.
If she loses friends due to her behaviour then that's unfortunate. You can't police her and mould her into a less offensive personality to prevent this. It would be a pointless full time job to even attempt it. All you can do is offer the support you feel comfortable with when the inevitable consequences hit. Which could be none at all if you choose.

Dymaxion · 09/05/2023 10:16

Sounds like she has had a busy, happy and popular life, and you don't like her.

I don't think its just OP who isn't keen on her or her behaviour, nobody wanted her to sit with them at an event, people were rolling their eyes behind her back, that doesn't sound like being popular does it ? And now she isn't happy that people are avoiding her and OP is worried she might be heading for another breakdown.

billy1966 · 09/05/2023 10:31

SquirrelSoShiny · 09/05/2023 08:09

She sounds like an ex friend of mine. He was both autistic and narcissistic. I wasted several years of my life trying to help him see the world through a different lense. He was incapable of insight or change because he didn't see any need to change. He was perfect; it was the rest of the world that was flawed. His capacity for vengeance and cruelty was something I had never seen up close before.

Step back from her emotionally is my advice. She is what she is.

Excellent advice.

Encourage your father to keep up his outside contacts and step far away.

You have written very clearly about your mother and her issues.

She sounds ghastly and while the locals are not hiding their feelings, they rightly have the choice not to be around her.

As above, you cannot change her.

Live your life as best you can and make sure your children have different memories.

By that I mean, that they do not grow up with the memory of a mother constantly running after, and trying to fix their unfixable grandmother.

thecatsthecats · 09/05/2023 10:39

I both understand the OP and find it incredibly frustrating.

My mum is similarly difficult, so I do understand the feelings it provokes, but I also agree with you that you're on a hiding to nothing trying to change her. Because my sister is constantly trying to manage her, and manage how she interacts with other people. And it's actually really bloody rude - I've been cc'd into the emails by mistake.

You'll probably find that you have a lot of a nicer relationship with her if you stop micromanaging her relationships with others and just focus on your relationship with her.

You're stuck in a pattern where you had to manage her behaviour as a child (and I have been there, done that, trust me), but trust me again when I say that you and your sister will have false flags for managing her behaviour - other adults can manage themselves.

Stompythedinosaur · 09/05/2023 10:58

It sounds like a really unhealthy dynamic all round.

You aren't responsible for her actions, you are only responsible for your own actions e.g. don't choose to go for christmas if she is absent and unwelcoming.

There is something in your tone of "I need to teach and monitor her" that makes it sound as if you actually think you are the superior one, and that isn't healthy either.

It's clear that it your eyes your dm is the bad parent and your df is the good parent, and I suspect it might be more complex than that. Presumably your df also went out at christmas when expecting guests, and he is choosing to stay in the situation and not address the hurtful things that are happening.

I think you might be better pulling back from the relationship a bit. They are adults and can make their own choices.

Dymaxion · 09/05/2023 12:04

@Froglet84 Can I ask why you feel it is up to you to ensure she gets the care she needs when she has a breakdown ? she is married to your Father, isn't he capable of doing this or does he choose not to ? Or do you feel like its your role/responsibility ? You mention other siblings, do they help when this happens or do you do it alone ?

SquaresandStarlings · 09/05/2023 13:11

Gtsr443 · 09/05/2023 06:56

You are overly invested in your mother's life.
Step back.
She is who she is.

This.

I'm so sorry OP - I think she's brainwashed you and your siblings into thinking she's the most important thing in your lives.

You need to learn to step back and start focusing on your own life.

Ponoka7 · 09/05/2023 17:00

@PegasusReturns the OP describes her as ND and a victim of childhood trauma (which can bring out a PD). Intelligence has nothing to do with it. ND doesn't mean low intelligence. That's why low/Hugh functioning wasn't a helpful description.

Ladysquamy · 09/05/2023 17:07

My dad is like this. My brother thinks he's neurodivergent. I don't know what to think and at this stage I don't particularly care. I just leave him to his own devices because I'm just ignored anyway.

Froglet84 · 09/05/2023 18:21

Thanks All.

Mum was diagnosed with personality disorder and claimed the assessor was wrong and didn’t know what they were taking about. Narcissistic traits are part of the personality disorder. I think. We got snippets of info from her on what they’d diagnosed and said. I’m not diagnosing her or labelling her. This was/ is what she was diagnosed with the time before last when she had a breakdown.

she is not popular. She literally can not name a single friend to call on. She has never been able to since I can remember, either. She had a friend when I was about 8. She tried to control her and was very critical and the friend never contacted her again.

I don’t feel the need to change her because I don’t want to control her. She often asks for my advice on why things are happening or calls me to sound out her opinions. She can be quite dependent. It’s always up to me to fix it. My dad does nothing, I’m not sure if that’s out of fear of the abuse he’ll get or not wanting to. My siblings aren’t able to mentally carry the load of it (neurodivergent themselves and struggle with stress, both have made suicide attempts in their youth).

I don’t have a good parent or bad parent perspective. They both made and make good and bad choices and both are responsible for various hard hitting impacts of the trauma that continued and impacted on my sister and I.

Im also very aware of the dynamic of domestic abuse. My dad is clearly a victim. When we were younger the police were called several times to subdue Mum and stop her physically abusing him. There is an additional dynamic of male mental health and domestic abuse and the stigma with asking for help or even admitting you need it. Hence he doesn’t identify in needing help but has admitted in private several times that he would leave if he emotionally or financially could cope with doing so.

Im taking from this that I won’t change anything and I can’t expect her to change. She is in her 70’s now.

OP posts:
InSpainTheRain · 09/05/2023 19:12

You need to step back from what your Mum is doing and getting involved in and just look after you and your immediately nuclear family. You won't be able to help her - it's who she is. She feels she knows best, if she ever asks for help (she won't) suggest counselling. But I feel there is nothing you can do. Sorry OP, you sound lovely but you need to look after yourself.

lemonchiffonpie · 09/05/2023 23:59

Im taking from this that I won’t change anything and I can’t expect her to change. She is in her 70’s now.

Pretty much this. Everything you are trying (and have been programmed from an early age) to do to help her is coming from a kind and hopeful place.

I think you need to save some of your kindness for yourself.

There are loads of books on this sort of thing. Nina Brown writes well on the Narcissistic type, and has books on dealing with people with these types of personalities as they get older. eg:

Children of the Aging Self-Absorbed: A Guide to Coping with Difficult, Narcissistic Parents and Grandparents : Nina W. Brown: Amazon.com.au: Books

itsrainin · 10/05/2023 00:09

I think you just leave her to it. Actions have consequences and she’s an intelligent lady, so you need to let her piece it together by herself. Also she’s 70, not saying she can’t have a fulfilling life, but chances are she’s unlikely to suddenly become a social butterfly and make the sort of strong friendships that allow for such heavy criticism from her.

AgentJohnson · 10/05/2023 05:35

How do I help her help herself and stop making these monumental Mistakes?

She doesn’t want your help even if you were qualified to offer some.

That help you keep offering, maybe you could access some for yourself. Your mother isn’t going to change.

Greenfairydust · 10/05/2023 07:32

You really need to step back from this and focus on your own life because it all sounds like a very, very unhealthy family dynamic.

It sounds like your siblings have already done that and that they were badly affected by the environment you all grew up in.

Your father is a grown adult who has chosen to remain with your mother and you should not feel like you have to protect him.

Just like it isn't your job to fix your mother.

I would really go low contact with her because you are letting her taking over your life still.

Your really don't want to look back on life and suddenly realise that your mother dominated and poisoned your entire existence....

DemBonesDemBones · 10/05/2023 08:18

I do wish the narc label wasn't thrown about so liberally. Narcs are EXTREMELY socially skilled. People like them because they put on an extraordinarily good act. The Facebook nonsense you describe is not the behaviour of a narcissist.

CleverLilViper · 10/05/2023 08:59

As others have said, you can’t control or change her. She’s made her bed with the village and they’ve decided, based on her actions, to distance themselves from her. That’s her fault.

It doesn’t matter if she is ND or narcissistic or has some other PD. Her behaviour results in people distancing themselves from her and that’s negative but nothing that you can change.

It’s not for you to step in and fix her or make her self-made problems go away. If she doesn’t recognise how her behaviour is causing the reaction she is receiving she’s never going to.

lemonchiffonpie · 10/05/2023 10:55

DemBonesDemBones · 10/05/2023 08:18

I do wish the narc label wasn't thrown about so liberally. Narcs are EXTREMELY socially skilled. People like them because they put on an extraordinarily good act. The Facebook nonsense you describe is not the behaviour of a narcissist.

You can have narcissistic tendencies, without being your version of a full-blown narcissist. Many of the cluster B personality disorders, which it would seem OP's mother has been diagnosed as having, have some features of NPD.

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