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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Cheeky-as-fuck neighbour

36 replies

SarahAndQuack · 09/05/2023 00:13

I live in an end-terrace. There are four houses which were once all owned by the same landlord. When we moved in, we were renting. The house had been rented for short periods by many people, and my adjourning neighbour had been there for years. At one point, apparently, she and the longer-term tenant of my house had shared the garden and used it as a joint allotment; at some even earlier point, all the four houses had outdoor privies in the back of what is now my garden. My neighbour isn't that elderly (60s), but she loves to tell me about how she used to be entitled to go into what's now my garden, and how she knows it better than me.

After renting for a couple of years, our house came up for sale and we bought it. My neighbour is used to us both having the same landlord, and she still seems to think she has access over my property. We've had to point out to the landlord's contractors that we won't allow access to her loft through our loft any more (in fact, we can't: it was a condition of sale that the access point between our lofts was bricked up, because it was a fire hazard). Recently, my neighbour has told me she will send her son into our garden to prune a tree that's on the boundary. She didn't ask: she told me. Her son isn't a tree surgeon or a gardener, and we're in a conservation area, where you need permission to prune trees of that size. As the tree is on the boundary, I'm naturally concerned we'll be held responsible - and we've not yet seen deeds to make clear where the boundary is, because we're still chasing land registry, and the title hasn't previously been split.

Is it me, or is she being incredibly cheeky?!

OP posts:
LakieLady · 09/05/2023 00:22

Definitely a CF. I'd put something in writing to her, pointing out the legal position regarding the tree and making it clear that you don't consent to it being pruned, just so it's clear that it's nothing to do with you if the council get arsey about it.

With regard to her coming onto what you believe to be your property, I don't think there's a lot you can do about it until you know for sure where the boundary actually is. But when you do establish where it is, put up the highest fence that's allowed, which I think is generally 2m, but may be different in a conservation area.

Original poster
SarahAndQuack · 09/05/2023 00:27

Thank you @LakieLady! I have written to her, quite gently but firmly, to sat that she can't have access to cut back this tree, as we could all get fined.

I think she was expecting to walk in through our gate, so I don't think a fence will deter her. We have planted some hedging (definitely on our side), and once it grows, it should make a screen.

OP posts:
ReadersD1gest · 09/05/2023 00:35

all the four houses had outdoor privies in the back of what is now my garden
This sounds odd. Are you absolutely sure where the boundaries of your property are?

Original poster
SarahAndQuack · 09/05/2023 00:42

ReadersD1gest · 09/05/2023 00:35

all the four houses had outdoor privies in the back of what is now my garden
This sounds odd. Are you absolutely sure where the boundaries of your property are?

As I say, no, I'm not sure, and therefore I am nervous!

But I don't think it is odd. Most of the village used to belong to the same landlord, and has subsequently been portioned up. Where I live, there are many, many cottages where the situation was the same: there were rows of cottages and rows of outbuildings, and the outbuildings were the privies (or washouses, or whatever). As these houses have been sold, decisions have been made as to how they're split up.

Historically, my house had the buildings with the privies because it was the end terrace, so they're at the side of my garden that doesn't stand next to another house.

OP posts:
AffableApple · 09/05/2023 01:00

She is a CF, but why wasn't this cleared up when you bought the place? Not a criticism, I am genuinely confused 😕

GloriousGoosebumps · 09/05/2023 02:39

The Land Registry obviously isn't going to clear it's backlog for some time but surely your contract of sale had a plan attached which will show you what land was included? As for the gate into your garden, I'd be padlocking it to underline the message that she has no right to enter your garden. Would her landlord be jointly responsible if she illegally pruned the tree? If so I'd be informing him so that he can put a stop to her intention since he probably doesn't want a criminal conviction for something he didn't do.

MaggieFS · 09/05/2023 07:28

Yes, cheeky, but sometimes people aren't always maliciously so, or know it's cheeky but assume e.g. 'well it will be ok for me'.

I agree with pp that you should typically have seen a copy of your plot as part of your purchase process. How do you know what the landlord hasn't screwed your over and left you no garden at all!! (By way of an extreme example).

You've done the right thing with a letter about the tree. Assume you've kept a copy?

You mention a gate and hedge planting, is there currently any firm boundary between the two gardens?

SoupDragon · 09/05/2023 07:34

at some even earlier point, all the four houses had outdoor privies in the back of what is now my garden

They may have a right of way across your land to get to these which you can't block. Right of way across gardens is common with old terraces.

HairyFarnbarn · 09/05/2023 07:36

Did you not get a plan when you bought the house? Surely all this was made clear at the time?

CheshireDing · 09/05/2023 07:42

When you say ‘bought it’ have you actually completed on the purchase or just had a purchase price agreed ?

If it has actually competed then you should already know your plot boundaries as this would have been discussed as part of the conveyancing work.

Is it that you are waiting for the Land Registry to attend to do a site survey on the land to split the split ? If so then you need to wait for this to be done before exchanging

Geneticsbunny · 09/05/2023 07:46

If you had the privies on your land then she may "own" the small square where her privey used to be and also have rights of access across your garden to get to it. We had this in a Victorian terrace and ended up owning a weird square of next doors garden.

Lonecatwithkitten · 09/05/2023 08:13

Another one saying you should have had a plan of the site that you should have confirmed to your solicitor that you were happy this was what you were buying.
All the little details as whether they old privies were yours or not, if anyone one has right of way or access to your garden should have been ironed out
We purchased a split site with shared drive and this was gone into in great detail to ensure everyone knew what was theirs.

Pashazade · 09/05/2023 08:19

You can get basic info online to download, pretty sure it will show boundary lines.
Plus ring the council to ask about whether or not there is a TPO (tree preservation order) on your tree. Not sure the conservation area matters per se in this case, I think it's more whether or not the individual or group of trees are protected.

www.gov.uk/search-property-information-land-registry

Seeline · 09/05/2023 08:21

Pashazade · 09/05/2023 08:19

You can get basic info online to download, pretty sure it will show boundary lines.
Plus ring the council to ask about whether or not there is a TPO (tree preservation order) on your tree. Not sure the conservation area matters per se in this case, I think it's more whether or not the individual or group of trees are protected.

www.gov.uk/search-property-information-land-registry

OP is correct - all trees over a certain size in Conservation Areas are protected. Consent is required from the Council before any works are undertaken.

CabernetSauvignon · 09/05/2023 08:22

There is no way a competent solicitor didn't establish what you were buying before completing the purchase, so just check with them where the boundaries are. In any event you need to make it clear to the neighbour that she can no longer act as if she has a right of entry to your garden.

LIZS · 09/05/2023 08:24

Is there any legal right of access through your garden, many terraces do? You need to tell her and ll not to prune the tree as you would be liable if done illegally. Not sure I would have bought it knowing the ndn sense of entitlement.

BigFloppa · 09/05/2023 08:25

LIZS · 09/05/2023 08:24

Is there any legal right of access through your garden, many terraces do? You need to tell her and ll not to prune the tree as you would be liable if done illegally. Not sure I would have bought it knowing the ndn sense of entitlement.

Was just coming to say this. I live in a terrace of 4 and the 2 end terraces have to allow access through their gardens for the 2 middle houses.

PauliesWalnuts · 09/05/2023 08:29

I’d ask your solicitor to write a summary of what she is and isn’t allowed to do and then go through it with her. Both my aunt and my boyfriend live in a set of four old mill worker terraces - my aunt is at the opposite end to the house with the four privies (which are still there). My boyfriend lives at the end of a row which has a side garden, which he owns, but has to let his neighbour dry her washing in there as she has “hanging rights” - the right to enter that garden to dry her washing. And she washes every day!

Redebs · 09/05/2023 08:36

You can check TPOs online. It will be on your county council website.

I would allow someone access to prune a tree on an arranged day. They can tidy up and take away cut branches. The consequences of not allowing it could be you ending up with an unbalanced tree that eventually falls in your garden due to lack of maintenance.

It was normal for the privvies to be together at the end of the terrace so that emptying them was easier. Would you consider buying them from the landlord for a small fee? Then you would have the option to fully fence them

2bazookas · 09/05/2023 08:38

I would ask either your previous LL , or your lawyer (who did the conveyance) to send all the LL's remaining tenants a formal letter along the lines of

"As you are aware. The Readers Digest have now purchased number 4 Terrace St and are now the sole rightful owners of that property including the loft and private garden. This means that any previous informal arrangements between rental tenants and number 4, are permanently cancelled. "

As for the tree,

If its branches overhang the LL's garden next door , then the LL has the right to sever them at the boundary point.

Her son does not have the right to enter your garden.

LIZS · 09/05/2023 08:40

*As for the tree,

If its branches overhang the LL's garden next door , then the LL has the right to sever them at the boundary point.*

Not in a Conservation Area, op may need planning permission.

Seeline · 09/05/2023 08:58

You can check TPOs online. It will be on your county council website.

Not all Councils have digitised this information yet.

Anyway, as the OP is in a Conservation Area, all trees over a certain size are protected in a way similar to a TPO. Consent for work will more than likely be required.

LaviniasBigBloomers · 09/05/2023 09:03

PauliesWalnuts · 09/05/2023 08:29

I’d ask your solicitor to write a summary of what she is and isn’t allowed to do and then go through it with her. Both my aunt and my boyfriend live in a set of four old mill worker terraces - my aunt is at the opposite end to the house with the four privies (which are still there). My boyfriend lives at the end of a row which has a side garden, which he owns, but has to let his neighbour dry her washing in there as she has “hanging rights” - the right to enter that garden to dry her washing. And she washes every day!

Yep, it's really not that uncommon for former terraces to have weird communality rules. My friend's house has 'bleaching rights' to a shared bleaching green!

But that all should have been gone through by OP's solicitor - generally they are nervous about anything non-standard on deeds so take a lot of care to bottom things out.

Nanny0gg · 09/05/2023 09:08

Redebs · 09/05/2023 08:36

You can check TPOs online. It will be on your county council website.

I would allow someone access to prune a tree on an arranged day. They can tidy up and take away cut branches. The consequences of not allowing it could be you ending up with an unbalanced tree that eventually falls in your garden due to lack of maintenance.

It was normal for the privvies to be together at the end of the terrace so that emptying them was easier. Would you consider buying them from the landlord for a small fee? Then you would have the option to fully fence them

The 'someone' needs to be a qualified tree surgeon after obtaining permission from the council.

Not some neighbour's random relative who won't even be insured!

PauliesWalnuts · 09/05/2023 10:01

@LaviniasBigBloomers - thanks for this! Boyfriend loves little bits of local history and quirks so I’m going to pass this on! His house was built for the clerk of works for the local dyeing mill so that’s why his has a bit of garden.