WIBU with my Dad on Saturday?(Long, and a trivial issue)!

[Noodge]

TLDR my Dad struggles a little while my Mum's away and expects me to 'look after him' and I had my LDR partner with me at the weekend and didn't want to drop everything for him AIBU?

I am asking this now, realise the 'moment' has passed, because he's still being off with me because of it and because it'll undoubtedly happen again in some format and I'd like to know what others think.

My Dad is late 60s. He's perfectly able bodied, fit, strong, capable, wealthy, drives, has friends, retired a LONG time ago, no vulnerabilities etc. etc.

My Mum and dad have been married 40 odd years. My Mum has a brother she's very close to who lives in the USA. Every year she visits him, and he visits her for two weeks-ish each.

I've been aware since I was a young adult that my Dad struggles a little while my Mum's away. Not practically so much (although my Mum always says the house is a bit of a tip when she returns)! but emotionally. He's just so used to her being there and he feels a bit, lost? I think. I haven't lived local to them as an adult until recently, but in the past I'd make a point of going to visit, staying over usually, for a couple of days while my Mum was away. On each and every one of these occasions he'd be quite unaccommodating toward me, snappy, grumpy and generally as if he didn't want me there-and sometimes worse, shouting at me and being outwardly awful even though had I NOT visited, he'd be even worse and while there he'd always ask me if I was going to visit again during the two week period which, depending on work and general life, wasn't always possible which he'd then be angry with me about.

Anyway I have a partner who I only see every few weeks (LDR although we are making plans for her to move in with me soon).

She was here last weekend.

So as not to drip-feed, my partner brings her dogs with her when she visits. They're lovely, but I have a dog and although they tolerate one another they're not quite used to each other yet. For this reason we have to watch them, don't let them run free in the house as a triad, if we let hers out in the garden we have to watch mine for not growling at them and vice versa (I hope that makes sense, basically the two of us need to keep an eye on the dog situation although they're getting much better).

I went out with my dad, spur of the moment, for the day earlier in the week although I did have other things to do, because I do feel a bit empathic toward his situation.

I asked my partner if she'd mind spending some time with my Dad on the Friday evening as he was struggling a little without my Mum, partner said yes that's fine, so we did and we were there for a good few hours, had some wine and some nice chats outside around the fire pit.

My Dad rang me at around 0900 on Saturday morning, partner was still asleep but stirring.I'd got up, pottered, had a shower, walked the dog and done some little jobs but then I'd got back into bed with my partner and was reading a book quite happily while waiting for her to arise. I then was going to bake for a gathering on Sunday, some plants to pot and we were then going to take our dogs out, call and see my dad and sit in the garden (already arranged) and later cook some food and perhaps go up to the local pub for a drink etc etc. Leisurely day but some things to do.

Dad, in this phone call had wanted me to go over to his to collect some firewood he'd chopped for me. I said yes we'll be over later, partner still asleep. He said 'no can you come now?' I said not really, she's still asleep and I've got other things to do but we shouldn't be too late coming over.

The conversation went on and he told me to just leave her asleep and come over now, he was sure she'd ring when she woke and I could come back home then. I said 'Dad I only see her every so often, I don't want to leave her and come there when I can come over with her later' (the firewood isn't in his way, he's got a lot of space and I didn't need it straight away either).

He told me I was being dramatic and she'd be fine (I know she would, not the point!) and I said about the dogs and it being unfair to leave her for that reason too. I got 'Oh for fuck's sake noodge fine then' and then he phone put down on me.

I was quite nervy about this all day and when we did call to see him later I was worried he'd be still in this mood but he was fine so that's good.

My perspective is yes, I understand he struggles BUT, he's married to my Mum and It's two bloody weeks.

I have had a life peppered with awful or short-lived relationships and as I don't see my partner often, I wanted that time with her even if she was asleep, I'm on my own 99% of the time and I wanted to enjoy a leisurely morning with her being there, not have to drop everything and rush over just because.

My Dad does have form for just everything being all about him and not respecting that other people's lives, jobs and situations are just as important, FWIW. He's quite immature in that way. I am his only child.

WIBU?
I hope I've explained this well enough.

It just sounded like he wanted you all to himself rather than coming over with DP?

I can't believe how needy your father sounds, he's only a couple of years older than me . I have a 90 year old parent who doesn't make any demands on my life or time - just appreciates what I can do.
How on earth will he cope if your mother dies or doesn't return from her holiday?
Its clear that this situation has gone on for a long time, maybe it's time for a serious chat before your mother goes away again?

I forgot to add that I went over yesterday and he was quite snappy with me, which I assume was to do with this.

Yes, I can see that-but my take was no, you can't have me all to yourself because my relationship is important too! You had that last week and can have it again when she's gone.

Maybe you shouldn’t have given reasons for not going? Just a simple’no, sorry but see you later as planned’ would have done followed by ‘must dash- someone at the door’

He struggles and possibly your DM struggles with his neediness too so boundaries are needed.

I hope you enjoyed the rest of your weekend.

Your father is selfish, nasty, controlling, manipulative, and deeply unpleasant.

Clearly you have been conditioned to accept his awful behaviour.

I would strongly suggest some counselling to help you see this.

I would also suggest you take some real space from him.

He is not a nice man and I have to worry about the nature of your parents marriage.

He sees you as a female child to be bossed around.

Step away, far away.

This is a deeply unhealthy dynamic.

Off topic slightly but is there a reason he doesn’t go with your DM if he’s so emotionally dependent on her?

Stop pandering to him. It's 2 weeks without your Mum let him sort his own entertainment out.

Why do you reward his poor, rude behaviour? Think of him as an overgrown toddler, bad behaviour is not rewarded only good behaviour.

It's honestly a bit concerning that you might even think that you were being unreasonable? Do you mind my asking g how old you are? This doesn't sound like an adult relationship at all.

Right so all of this is not normal at all. You should not be staying with someone who is abusive towards you. You should not be "marking time" when mum away as if you're some kind of interchangeable skivvy/emotional punching bag. All of this is wrong from the very foundation.

Have you had therapy at all? Explored childhood trauma? Read about narcissistic parents, what domestic abuse is, etc?

Stop spending time and energy on them, you owe them nothing. Live your own life.

@MatildaTheCat he'd have just rang me back had I done that I think. Wanting a reason or decided I was a horrible selfish person for not doing it BUT on the other hand you're right, I shouldn't feel the need to explain myself beyond 'Can't sorry other things to do, see you later though!'

I did thank you-Imean I dont see her often or for long so we try to make the most of our time and things are a little rushed anyway without having that.

@Ragwort I will speak to my Mum about it but I can't see how it'll change anything.

@billy1966 my Mum has actually said similar to that. That he sees me as a litte child still. Recently I was at their house for lunch and went to leave by the back door becuase my shoes were there and he was shouting at me about how it'd b e better to leave by the front door (can't remember his reasons) and not listening at all that I couldn't as my shoes were by the back door.
Thank you. I know I have been conditioned :(
their marriage seems fine, they're still in love and still intimate and go on dates etc but my Mum is a lot 'harder' than me. She doesn't put up with his attitude and if she does get the brunt, it doesn't upset or annoy her.

@MikeWozniaksMohawk he's terrified of flying and doesn't like his SIL (Mum's Brother's wife)!

@RandomMess definitely he's like a big baby sometimes as I said, very immature

@EscapeRoomToTheSun I'm 41

@Mochinated I have had therapy but not gone deep into anything about this situation. I am very aware of narcissistic parenting and abuse etc due to the nature of my work. It did take me some time to develop the boundaries I now have with him but I appreciate they could be a lot better.

Why does he not go with your mum? (Or is she desperate for a break from him herself?)

Bless you. I agree that you need to step away, as much as you can. I know he's not that old, but it is worth thinking about what will happen in the event that he outlives your mum. His needs and wants will probably utterly consume you. Sadly the Cockroach Cafe (The Cockroach Cafe 🪳 Spring 2023 | Mumsnet) and Stately Homes (April 2023 -"Well we took you to Stately Homes" | Mumsnet) threads are full of people doing their best with parents like your dad.

Get some plans in place, but I don't think you are being unreasonable at all. You sound like a wise and kind person who cares about your family and partner.

There is a saying that goes "you cannot set yourself on fire to keep another person warm". Please keep yourself with enough distance and resolve to say no to unreasonable demands and unkindness. Be prepared to put your phone on silent or temporarily block him for a bit if you have to. Because it sounds like your father would be more than willing to sit and watch you burn - and then shout at and abuse you anyway because you didn't do it exactly to his liking.

He will drag you down if you let him. I've seen it happen IRL to strong, vibrant, intelligent people. You are an adult now and you don't "owe" him anything.

Best wishes to you. x

Nip this in the bud now. If anything terrible happens and he is left alone, you’ll be in full target.

It's a narcissistic trait to not ascribe sensible age expectations to people. I should know FIL. So when DD was two he was horrified she couldn't immediately tell analogue time. But his 40 and 42 yo children are treated like toddlers.

Strong strong boundaries are the only effective remedy. He calls, you say, "can't right now, see you later" and that's ALL. No reason, no excuses and if he escalates you end the call. Instead of more attention for being mean, he gets less.

Agree with PP that you need plans for if your mum passes first. Very good plans.

You need better boundaries. Stop justifying your no because it gives him room to argue then the arguing causes him to blow. My father used to be like this many years ago (I'm the youngest and the scapegoat). After i decided i wasnt having it any more the conversations used to go like this
Dad: can you do XYZ now
Me: why? Why do I need to do it now?
Dad: because I'm asking you to
Me: that won't work for me sorry

"Dad, I know I'm your daughter but I'm an adult and can make my own decisions"

I also said "Dad you're snapping at me a lot tonight, can you stop please or l'll be going home". That can't be twisted that to make me out to be rude or unreasonable wuen retold to others. I actually did just get up and leave a few times before he realised I meant it and nowadays he is very respectful.

@Crunchymum he's terrified of flying an It's quite a long flight (about ten hours I think) plus he doesn't get on with my Mum's brother's wife for various reasons.
@REP22 beleive me, I've thought about that! I've often said to my Mum that she's 'not allowed to die before him' (we joke about it!) she's quite a bit older than him but...And obviously I'd not want either of them left on their own :( thank you, I'll have a look at those threads.]And you're right-I've uttered that phrase to many people myself!

@MrsTerryPratchett that's interesting regarding age. There's only me he's like this with to the extent-he's like this with everyone more or less, but I guess as his only child I am a bit different in his eyes.
Not sure what sort of plans but I know I need some. My Mum has said to him recently 'Stop telling her what to do! She's not TWO you know?!'

@Natty13 well done regarding that.

Brilliant.
Believe it or not, a few years ago I'd have gone straight over without thinking. I still have my moments but I have got a LOT better. I have walked out of their house several times since I decided I just wasn't having this any more, sitting their being shouted at. I think my 'thing' was 'would I want someone I love to put up with this' and if the answer was a no, then I applied the same 'love' to myself.

I've just been thinking that it is his birthday while she's away too, in a few day's time.
I've got him a card/present and my Mum's left him a card too. I don't think I'll make a big deal of it but I'll perhaps go over and have a drink with him.

The thing that really stood out from your post for me was this

I was quite nervy about this all day and when we did call to see him later I was worried he'd be still in this mood but he was fine so that's good.

and from your more recent post, that your mum is much harder on him.

Your mood for the day should not be dependant on the fact that your dad wanted you to come over and it wasn't convenient. . You need to stand up to him and just say no, and then remember that any mood or fallout is up to him.
So if you turn up for a drink and he is being moody, say it- Dad you are being moody because I wouldn't come over when you wanted this morning. Well, cheer up and get over it, or we will just go home. Give him 5 minutes and if he is still being moody, say - thanks for the drink, but you obviously don't want us here, so we'll head off home, Bye!

and when he phones, remember that you don't have to explain yourself. In fact tell him that. Dad it isn't convenient. no I am not going to give you a run down of my day, you reaaly don't need to know all of my business, I have told you it isn't convenient and that should be enough.
Although in the case of the morning phone call I would have said - I'm waiting for her to wake up so that we can have sex. Not getting the logs and put the phone down.

Your mum obvioulsy don't take any nonsense and gives him boundaries, you should too.

OP, this is a wise post.

You are so vulnerable to an abusive intimate relationship because of the way you have been conditioned.

If you were healthy emotionally, the nerves you feel would trigger you to realise you need to step so far away from your toxic father and protect yourself.

Instead you are second guessing yourself at 41?

This is a really fxcked up dynamic and if your mother goes first, you need to emigrate.

Your father is abusive and whilst your mother is able for him, you have been abused and controlled.

Get counselling and step away from him.

He's not a good man.

He's a bully.

Don't be left caring for him.

I think my 'thing' was 'would I want someone I love to put up with this' and if the answer was a no, then I applied the same 'love' to myself.

Excellent thinking. At some point you will have to ask yourself why your dad thinks it's OK for you to put up with it. That's going to be a harder conversation with yourself.

Ultimately PP is right, he can choose to be a grumpy arse and you can choose to remove yourself from that.

You are not his wife. Keep repeating. Sounds childish and entitled.

@steppemum yes, I know this isn't right. My Mum isn't hard on him (not enough probably!) she's harder than me personality wise-just not bothered about his silly tantrums etc.

A few years ago he really laid into me over something ad made threats-my day was totally ruined, I was at an event about an hour away and went rushing back- and I am not anywhere near that bad now but yes, I was panicked and worried. I suspect if my partner hadn't have been around I'd have got his temper when we turned up later, he'd not dare do it in front of her ( I think a lot to do with her being very masculine in appearance and also him wanting to save face).

Regarding 'I'm waiting for her to wake up to have sex'

1)I was! (In a way, obviously I'd not force it if it wasn't what she wanted!) and 2) I actually joked with her that I should have said just that

I am taking all of this in. I dont want to be panicked by him again.

Thank you @billy1966-it is a real worry of mine about being left with him. There's only me-I have a half sister (not his) and her DH and their adult children with their own lives but that's all of us around.

@MrsTerryPratchett I think I know the answer to that. I'm a child, I'm 'his'. I'm not a real person (to him).

I think I know the answer to that. I'm a child, I'm 'his'. I'm not a real person (to him).

and at the moment alot of the messages you are giving is that he has the right to expect that.

I wonder how you are with other people, eg work colleagues? You don't have to answer me, but the point is, if a work colleague had phoned you on your day off and asked you to do something, how confident would you have felt in saying, no, sorry, can't do that its my day off.

It is easy for me to say be tougher on him, but if it is somethign you struggle with across all areas of life, then that is hard.

Start with being very clear to him that you have your own life and are not at his beck and call. So, phrases like - no, I have plans, but I will see you on Sunday.
That doesn't work for me, it isn't convenient. I am free on tuesday afternoon, so I could do it then.
Polite firm, but very clearly with your own life. And don't fall into the trap of saying WHY all the time, because then he can argue with you. So don't say - I've go to go shopping, instead say I am busy this morning. If he asks what you are up to, then be vague - oh things I have to get done today.

And I was actually only half kidding about the sex thing. (but I wouldn't have said it either) It is a way to say very bluntly - I am an adult and have my own life. It woudl have made him quickly back down and rethink a little.

Thanks @steppemum , I do need to get better with this situation, I know.

I can and do say no to people but I do have a bit of an issue with it sometimes-my default is to try to work out how to accommodate so I do have to be mindful of that and think about what is best for me, rather than default to doing what others want but really, I am much much worse with him than anyone else.
It's just him really, that I am like this with. Fear installed as a child, perhaps.

I should have just said no I can't-rather than explain. Explanations give them room to argue don't they?

I assumed you were half-kidding but really, I'd have loved to have heard his reaction had I said that! When my partner woke up and I told her I did say 'I should have said I couldnt' because I wanted to spend the morning having sex' it is a very blunt way of putting it although I'd not be so brave. Most adults, when told 'no sorry I can't' would accept it and not push further.