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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To want rid of the gollys?

134 replies

SueBaroo · 18/02/2008 11:28

Dh just got given a shedload of very old gollywog models by FIL, who is cleaning out his loft. Dh reckons there's quite some money involved if a collector wanted them, but I think they're vile, and I would just like to bin them.

AIBU?

OP posts:
Sugarmagnolia · 19/02/2008 11:08

They were designed after the American blackface minstrels -white racist performers making caricatures of what they thought of as ?darkies? or ?coons?. They're disgusting and you should bin the lot.

Original poster
SueBaroo · 19/02/2008 12:37

Well, I do think they're offensive and unacceptable - the same way I find any racial charicature that has been used in part of oppression offensive - Jews with big noses and so on.

I've had a chat to Dh about it, we're going to look into donating them to a museum or selling them and using the money as a donation to an anti-racism charity, as others have suggested. Just as a general point, they don't have any sentimental value, so that isn't one of the issues.

OP posts:
dittany · 19/02/2008 14:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

madamez · 19/02/2008 14:27

Dittany, I don't think that argument stands up at all. Surely selling something and donating the money to charity is more ethical in terms of a) the money does the charity some good and b) we are supposed to throw away as little as possible for environmental reasons. Bear in mind that the OP is not racist, dosen;t want to parade the golliwogs down the local high st and wasn;t the one who bought them in the first place (by the sound of it whoever bought or made these antiques would be dead by now).
You can have too excessive a liberal conscience.

dittany · 19/02/2008 14:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

madamez · 19/02/2008 14:39

Most of the people I know who have worked for charities or done fundraising reckon that any money is good money (with the possible exception of a donation that comes with strings attached, which would not be true in this case) - and some who are of a religious mindset think that money paid by someone wanting to appease his/her conscience is a Good Thing.

doggiesayswoof · 19/02/2008 14:47

Madamez I'm a fundraiser and we have an ethical policy which means we are quite careful about where money is coming from. Ethics in charity is a big issue these days, so I think you're wrong about that actually

I would bin them tbh, if I was in the same situation. Ghastly objects.

dittany · 19/02/2008 14:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

jenkel · 19/02/2008 15:07

I had Gollys when I was younger and collected them from the marmalade jars. To me, they were a toy and nothing more, I dont count myself as racist and have no racist feelings towards anybody. In fact, I didnt really know when I played with them that they represented anything, to me they were a harmless toy. It wasnt until later when I started to read things and was more aware that I realised that they could cause offense to some people. To me, a golly is not racist material, it is purely a toy. When I was five I didnt even know what a racist was or if a thing as a racist even existed. And I like to think that I have grown into an educated person who is not at all racist. However, saying all this I would not have one now if it would cause offence to my friends.

clumsymum · 19/02/2008 15:23

Jenkel, I agree with you. A golly is a TOY, it is no more representative of the enslavement of black people than Barbie is representative of the reducing of women into sex symbols.

I'm intrigued too by dittany's comment "Of course what a gollywog-filled environment feels like for black people is another matter - probably quite toxic"
Actually I find that quite a patronising sentence.

After the last thread on this subject I asked a friend of mine what her attitude was, and that of her family. Guess what, they are black. And also guess what, they don't mind the idea of Golliwogs at all, and in fact the baby of the family has one, given to her recently by an elderly friend of the family, and much loved.

I think we are verging into the lunatic fringe of political correctness over the whole golliwog issue.

If I were the opening poster I would sell them to someone who would treasure them (very likely with no racist motives at all) and use the money to buy something her own family would treasure.

toomanyshoes · 19/02/2008 15:39

they are just a toy to you but to me they are a revolting caricature of black people. I do not want to have to explain to my mixed race children what these stupid bloody things are, they have their whole lives to contend with the prejudices of others - i'd rather not be dealing with it when they are tiny.
Little black sambo could be the best book in the world and you might feel nostalgic about Gollys you had as children but I think you need to get over yourselves. Obviously nobody in your family has been referred to as a wog, gollywog or a sambo. This is not political correctness gone mad, it is sensitivity to others (a far cry from the ludicrous little white sheep/white board rubbish)

doggiesayswoof · 19/02/2008 15:42

Hear hear toomanyshoes. I think that says it all.

clumsymum · 19/02/2008 15:51

But toomanyshoes honestly, do you think that the people who call your kids those name even KNOW what golly's originally represented? Cos I don't think so, and I don't think eradicating all golliwog references from the world would stop it, just as I honestly don't believe the existence of these toys makes one iota difference to it.

The world is a mean and cruel place, I know it cos I get called a spaz and a crip for being disabled. I'm sorry that your kids get called these names. It's horrible, but if it wasn't that it would be something else.

But honestly I don't think these toys are the nub of the problem.

toomanyshoes · 19/02/2008 15:58

Of course they are not the nub of the problem - ignorance is. I am telling you that I find them offensive, that my black husband finds them offensive and that I do not want my children to have to deal with the unpleasant connotations of gollywogs as toys. My children are very small (nearly 3 and 2 months) and have never been called a racist name (unlike DH who at 44 has heard the lot at one time or another) and I am pretty sure that most of the other children at DD's nursery have never seen or even heard of gollywogs. I'd prefer to keep it that way.

ravenAK · 19/02/2008 16:03

Given the OP has no attachment to these things, I'd suggest choosing an anti-racist charity (at school we support www.kickitout.org), contacting them & putting the dilemma (sell & donate proceeds/chuck in bin) to them...

I can see both sides to be honest. Ds was raking through a tin full of old marbles & tat the other day & came across some old Robinson badges - I must've been given them 30 years ago! - he wanted them, I vetoed them (ostensibly on grounds of rusty old pins) & binned them.

I remember collecting the tokens for them & choosing the different designs, & it never occurred to me to connect them to black friends - nor would it occur to ds. But I know other people find them offensive - so they're gone. Job done.

madamez · 19/02/2008 16:11

Doggiesayswoof: but itsn;t it still fairly usual for people who have done something bad-ish to make a donation to a charity by way of apology (thinking of newspapers who print something mildly libellous and how the victims can compel them to donate to a relevant charity). I think (OK I am a bit vague on this so it's all 'alledgedly') but didn;t a tabloid newspaper have to give money to an AIDS charity after publishing something nasty and homophobic about a celebrity? Would that be percieved as unethcial from a charity point of view?

expatinscotland · 19/02/2008 16:13

Sorry, but I'm not British. What are these things?

expatinscotland · 19/02/2008 16:13

Well, not British by birth.

Original poster
SueBaroo · 19/02/2008 16:44

RavenAK, thanks for that link, that's really very helpful.

dittany, I don't disagree with you, and if it was up to me, I would have binned them.

OP posts:
northernrefugee39 · 19/02/2008 16:50

The previous thread that someone has linked to about golliwogs was very revealingwww.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=2724&threadid=446135#9030035

Golliwogs are racist.
Should be banned.
Anyone who thinks otherwise should think again imo.

northernrefugee39 · 19/02/2008 16:52

Madamez- to keep them in circulation is just perpetuating the racism.

I completely agree with Dittany.

Bin them.

northernrefugee39 · 19/02/2008 16:56

jenkel you said

"to me they were a harmless toy"

And you aren't black I assume?

How patronising!

Their history is a sick reminder of racism.

jenkel · 19/02/2008 17:14

actually if you quote me read my entire message please, last sentance, I wouldnt have one if they would offend people.

no I'm not black, and I have black friends who are not offended by them but understand that some people are, I just wanted to make the point that I wasnt given them by racist parents and I believe that I do not have a racist bone in my body.

I understand peoples views but for lots of people my age this was just a harmless toy and thats

madamez · 19/02/2008 21:26

Northenrefugee I think it's fair to say that to a toddler in the 60s/70s a golliwog would just have been a toy and not a guarantee that the toddler would grow into a racist.

kittywise · 20/02/2008 08:29

My mum made me a giant golly bag to keep my toys in and I had badges from the jam tokens. I loved them all.
Neither of us are racists.