To think that there would be less anti private school

[Poopoolittlekitten]

sentiment or threads on MN if people using private school were a tiny bit more self aware and didn’t ask for sympathy for rising fees or possible rising fees if Labour take away their false ‘charity’ status?

send your kid private if you want, just don’t come moaning about the costs or claim than anyone can go private if they ‘prioritise’ their child’s education they way you do. Particularly at a time when state school teachers are striking over pay and conditions.
And many, many people are working their socks off just to keep a roof over their family’s head.

YANBU - stop whining and looking for sympathy about your fees!

YABU - my milkman sends his 4 kids private by ‘prioritising’ their education so it’s not just for whiny poshos….

I pile on to shout about how the OP is wrong, or shouldn’t have posted or bang on about other posts they’ve made.

Presumably that should say ‘I don’t pile on…’?
So you don’t think posters should be able to say they think the op is wrong?
Do you want everyone to agree with everything you say?

Take a look at yourself, OP. You are acting like a child in the playground.

'people post on what interests them. Just because you don’t like it or don’t agree with some opinions doesn’t mean you, or anyone else shut down conversations.
As always, if a topic or even poster annoys you - keep moving! Don’t click on the post, don’t engage, don’t comment.
There are 100s of posts and topics on MN that I don’t see the point of, so I ignore them.
I pile on to shout about how the OP is wrong, or shouldn’t have posted or bang on about other posts they’ve made.
You don’t like a topic, you’re bored? Then MOVE ON.'

I'm delighted you've had this startling revelation OP. Next time you see a thread about private school fees, you now know what to do.

'I'm worried about the potential fee increase. I don't think I have ever posted looking for sympathy regarding the fee increase though.'

And therefore you don;t have to deal with any unsympathetic comments either.

I'm actually beginning to admire your tenacity. Can you start a fight in an empty room?

Your obsession with parents who send their kids to private school is becoming a bit weird now.

I’ve seen quite a few people post that are just discussing the increases, not moaning and there’s always at least a few cunty comments like ‘my heart bleeds’. So yes, they do have to deal with them.

‘I’ve seen quite a few people post that are just discussing the increases, not moaning’

discussing how? The place to discuss service charges from a business should be with that business shouldn’t it? Be a lot more constructive.

People are sounding out other parents to see if they are experiencing the same thing.

Well @Poopoolittlekitten if you work in the education industry surely you know like I do that private schools compete amongst each other. So parents are checking what other schools are doing. Private schools themselves will be doing exactly that too. Should we cut our extra curricular provision or should we keep up with our competitors? Should we hire less expensive teachers when one leaves or should we go all out on the best teaching staff and pass that cost on to parents? Should we delay the building projects in the pipeline given the increase in cost? Should we narrow our lunch choices?

Just like those of us using state schools are posting about the lack of strike consistency across schools in our area… it is no different. People always look at what other schools are doing.

Private schools are just schools full of children and parents. It is funny how people tend to forget that just because someone has spent 20k per year on a child. It is a still a child.

But can’t you read the thread title and just not read it?

it’s Like saying people shouldn’t post about their house not selling when some people are renting and can’t afford to buy a house.

or someone complaining about a bad pregnancy when other can’t get pregnant.

I think the thing that bothers all of us "awful, greedy, out-of-touch private school parents" is that regardless of what you think of private schools from a moral standpoint, raising fees by 20% for VAT is just a very stupid, ill-thought-through policy from an economic standpoint without a proper plan in place.

There seems to be an assumption that everyone who sends their kid to private school is an oligarch that has an endless supply of cash and that just isn't true.

If I take my DC private school as an example, an instant 20% raise (on top of the fees the annual fee of 5- 10% anyway) would go something like this:

• Roughly 20% - 30% of the parents would absorb that raise no problem, and carry on as they were

• Another 30 - 40% of the parents could probably absorb it but with significant cutbacks in spending elsewhere. So that means less spending happening in other areas, including with many local businesses or self-employed people (cleaners, gardeners, nannies, etc) who are in many cases struggling to get by as it is with the current cost of living crisis and general downtown in business post covid.

• About 20% could not afford to absorb it and would pull their kids out - so where are all those kids going to go? All state schools near me are already way oversubscribed, so what is the plan to handle the sudden demand for extra places? And how much worse will the quality of state education be for the kids at those existing schools when they are forced to take on even more kids with no additional support/facilities provision?

There are about 550,000 children in private education in the UK. So if roughly 20% suddenly couldn't afford their fees, what's the plan for the additional 110,000 state school places needed?

And no, I'm not asking for sympathy at all - just pointing out that engaging with politics of envy is a race to the bottom.

She can't ignore it. On a few other private school threads yesterday. Presumably seething with resentment.

@roseotter - there is no plan. This is just a policy to appease the left faction in the Labour Party. I doubt it will come to fruition anyway. However, since Brexit, you never know…

This isn’t just about teachers and kids but also that private schools are actually run on tight margins. So if a lot of them end up folding what then? What about the teachers, caterers, gardeners, handymen etc? They are not rich people. Sure the state sector needs teachers but I doubt many will want to go there in the long run. Unless the working conditions change drastically overnight. The point about state vs private should really be about all the teacher pressure in the state system and their working environment. I have so many friends who left the state sector because their mental health was shot to pieces. They are now happily teaching in the private sector. They are not rich. They have families. They are paying taxes.

'I think the thing that bothers all of us "awful, greedy, out-of-touch private school parents" is that regardless of what you think of private schools from a moral standpoint, raising fees by 20% for VAT is just a very stupid, ill-thought-through policy from an economic standpoint without a proper plan in place.'

I think the think that bothers you is you may be charged more by the school your child goes to. Not for one second doesn't anyone think that private school parents care about the impact on anyone but themselves.

from the stand point of one of the majority who use state schools - private schools, charging fees, are NOT a charity and should not be given tax breaks meant for charities. If schools which run as businesses have to pay business rates, most people would think that sounds fair.

whether a private school charges more for it services to it's customers - is entirely up to that school. And it seems as if fees are rising and rising anyway, which is nothing to do with Labour or their future plans around this.

It's the current TORY government which is in charge of the country, and everything that's good and bad about it right now.

Why don’t people care when others splash out on expensive cars, holidays, clothes, “experiences”, etc. but become very exercised about private schooling? A better investment than those other things, surely?

' What about the teachers, caterers, gardeners, handymen etc?'

Ah of course. What about the 'staff'. I suppose they'd have to do what the rest of us do when we're made redundant - find another job.

The teachers will be absolutely fine - the state sector has a massive shortage at the moment. Provided they actually have a teaching qualification that is.
Councils still insist on that, regardless of how 'interesting' their background or experience is.

In fact, I'm fairly sure all school related staff will be fine, there's a huge job market for them given how many state schools there are in the UK.

“In fact, I'm fairly sure all school related staff will be fine, there's a huge job market for them given how many state schools there are in the UK.”

Sure let’s add another 20 per cent to private health care too so those pesky doctors do more hours for the NHS rather than their private work on the side. Which by the way, most are doing to be paid a more normal wage for the amount of qualifications they have. Better they do that then fuck off to Australia, right?

As regards private school teachers run a survey and ask them. Most will tell you they do have some state school experience but did not enjoy the working conditions (battered by Ofsted, no choice of curriculum, no time for each individual child, letting kids down day in and out due to the circumstances etc).

I guess it depends what the get. objective is. Is the objective is to get a population that can spell and add up, then any educational programme is helping them to realise that objective and so you don't tax them. Just like you don't tax people buying children's clothes because your objective is that children are clothed, rather than to raise taxes.

On the other garde, if your objective is to realise some Enlightenment ideal of citizens being educated all together, then the private schools, especially the single sex ones could be seen as working against that, so not in the gvt. interest to give them a tax break.

The place to discuss service charges from a business should be with that business shouldn’t it? Be a lot more constructive.

Presumably you’re also on the threads with people complaining (understandably) about the price of supermarket food telling them to discuss their concerns with the business? Supermarkets are a business after all - customers should just discuss pricing with the board members of supermarkets. No need to comment online using your logic.

I’ll await your response which will no doubt involve something along the lines of “ah but that’s different”.

The teachers will be absolutely fine - the state sector has a massive shortage at the moment.

Do you honestly think that most private school teachers will just happily move into the state system (given their state counterparts are telling them just how awful the situation there is). They’re more likely to move abroad to international schools.

Provided they actually have a teaching qualification that is.

It was only a matter of time before this old chestnut was wheeled out. I’ll tick off my “private school discussion bingo card”. Private schools don’t just get random people off the street to teach. Whilst they might not all be career teachers, they are often extremely experienced in their field, with years of experience in the real world. I’m as happy for my child to be taught by someone with real life experience as I am by someone who has learnt everything from a text book. Both types of teacher have their own strengths. These teachers will just move back into the sector they came from or retire a bit earlier than planned.

In fact, I'm fairly sure all school related staff will be fine,

Do you realise there are towns up and down the UK where the private school is a huge part of the local economy and provides a huge proportion of local employment? They are often the lifeblood of the local community. It’s not just a few jobs here and there. I’ve compared 2 schools of similar size in a similar geographical area (a state school and private school). In fact the state school is slightly larger. The state school employs around 140 staff. The private school employs 750.

I quite agree. I haven’t seen any of the supposed calculations on how much tax would be raised with the introduction of VAT include the impact that decreased spending in other areas would have. A large proportion of parents would cut back on house improvements, holidays, new cars etc. They’ll be paying VAT on school fees but they will no longer be paying as much VAT on other areas of discretionary spending.

Because there are never threads discussing energy bills/the price of petrol/train fares/pints of milk...

Are you aware of how much classroom time at state schools is now conducted by those who aren't fully qualified? Whether it's TAs and classroom supervisors being used to save the cost of a supply teacher, or the fact that it's next to impossible to recruit physics specialists so other teachers are being asked to fill in - some not even having physics A level.

My DC went to the church state primary (I went to church for years mainly to just get them in but I found God in the process) and then selective grammar. I didn’t tutor, I DIYed. I don’t need a tutor, qualified myself thank you very much.

All hell would freeze over before I would have sent my DC to one of the comps in our area full of kids from troubled homes and knives and gangs. I don’t judge private school parents one bit. They typically work hard and pay their taxes. We want our kids to contribute and stay safe. We talk to them, read to them, wash their clothes, feed them and don’t argue in front of them. We feed them hummus and organic lentils. We have cut out avocado because of the carbon footprint. We take trains and we bought an electric car and have solar panels.
If we lived in a nice leafy area with a nice comp they would have gone there. If we had to, we would have paid up for private school.
Every time I have gone to the NHS they have been there for me. “They help families like us.” Once I paid for a private consultation to get on the NHS list. I felt guilty but needs must. My DC come first. They will also grow up nice little middle class contributors. They will indirectly pay for those DC who did not have a happy stable childhood. Which is the right thing to do.

Happy now OP?

Being kind and respectful is the most important thing we can teach our children. That applies to every parent.

Anyone who wants to indirectly harm children and families, is out in my books. It is a matter of principle.

Another, Intergalactic & Draig the op isn’t going to listen to any reasoned arguments - she just wants to pick a fight and enjoy trotting out all the old chestnuts.