What standard of living do you think should be the minimum everyone can afford?

[MondayAgainnn]

What do you think the absolute basic minimum should be?

I think everybody should be able to afford:

Decent food
Safe housing
Any extra medical things needed, including dentistry
Internet package as it is completely necessary nowadays
Enough clothes to stay warm, dry, appropriate trainers for exercising etc
Enough for some discretionary spending - obviously this is harder to quantify, but things like Netflix, a coffee, cinema tickets I feel should be a normal attainable part of life for everyone
Enough to save a bit

Whether it is through work or through benefits I feel everyone in society should be able to have a lifestyle that is dignified, basically comfortable and with room for treats. Not just subsistence level.

What do you think the minimum should be?

I agree with this 100%.

For somebody in full time work or on disability benefits, I think as a bare minimum they should be able to pay rent, bills, be able to buy food, extra curriculars for the kids, a bit of spare cash for the odd day out or takeaway.

I don't think in a wealthy country like this people should be grateful to just have enough for the bills and nothing else.

It’s rare enough for the amount of fraudulent claims to be massively outweighed by the amount of unclaimed benefits.

I agree with this.

I think a budget that allows at least a few small pleasant things such as being able to have a coffee with a friend, makes for happier and more socially engaged people in the long run.

Even if you don't really care about individuals having miserable lives, surely it is better for society to have happier, more productive people?

I'm sorry but material things don't make people happy. Pleasant experiences can be free. I regularly meet my friend and we go for a walk.

Yet they found a magic money tree to give the PPE contract to their mates during covid. That money tree doesn’t appear to be running out either, as the Tories continue to empty the coffers!

@Blossomtoes

That's not that rare though

It's a lot of money

And thars obviously only the people who have been caught

Thank you 🙏🏻

It’s a miserable existence being disabled through no fault of my own. I had a reasonably good job until ill health took it away from me. Now I really have to think twice about whether I can afford to meet a friend for a coffee which would be so good for my mental health.

It’s not nearly as much as benefits unclaimed by people entitled to them. And it’s dwarfed by tax fraud.

@Blossomtoes

Neither of those things are relevant to the point though

All 3 things can be true

OP - I agree that that is the standard of living that should be attainable by someone working full time. It is not basic but should be attainable if you work hard.

I totally disagree that this is the standard for people on benefits as otherwise no one would work/the taxation rate for those in work would be skyhigh. The country is simply not rich enough to support it.

No idea if you’re missing the point on purpose or not. There’s no point in continuing either way.

If people want a treat, then they should work for it!

@Blossomtoes

No I'm not missing your point.

You're trying to minimise benefit fraud by saying, oh well tax evasion is worse

Its not.

my point was that people often deny that benefit fraud happens or that its impossible to be better off on benefits than working

Both happen often enough to be an issue even if more goes unclaimed or tax evasion also happens

I am also a taxpayer who has worked full time for 30 years - never claimed a penny off the state (childfree so don't get 'top ups' on my wages). That doesn't mean I think people on benefits should be purposely deprived of any and all small pleasures.

I say again - the issue of people being on benefits when they are fit to work is a different question from what the benefits standard of living should be. You've mentioned people who are disabled and unable to work - should they be forced to lead a bleak life just because there are others taking advantage of the system?

I don't think treats are in the definition of absolute basic minimum

When my kids were small and I was a single parent, treats were a bath or a walk in the park. I couldn't have afforded more but I was happy.

Now I have more money, I would regard a holiday, meals out, takeaways, streaming services etc as treats

You don’t get benefits if you refuse to work if if you are physically/mentally capable of it.

In a country with as much wealth as the UK what you describe in the OP should be the bare minimum.

But that's never going to happen as there's far to many selfish and heartless pricks in the UK, who would literally rather deprive themselves if it meant they could stop someone they consider beneath them getting something "extra".

Because I think when people have their basic needs met, it frees up a lot more brain space to be ambitious and aim for a better paid job, or to retrain, or start a business etc

But this isn't the case and isn't what happens.
What ends up happening, is that people who work and pay more tax become bitter about paying for the lifestyle of people who choose not to work. They then stop being as productive and then less tax, which means overall less benefits for everyone. This leans towards socialism which on paper is great but in reality never works.

Benefits need to be high enough to enable a lifestyle that allows for minimum criteria of living with dignity but should never be higher than a full time wage.

otherwise as other posters have said- where is the incentive to work and better yourself/improve social mobility?

Lots of people do and still can't afford it!

I agree with most things here. If a job needs doing then the person doing the job needs to be paid enough to live a decent standard of living. Anything less is exploitation imo.

looking at the UK the standard of living has fallen very quickly for a significant number of people.

Only because of your own short timescale. If you were older you'd have seen the UK standard of living rise hugely.. for almost everyone.

whatever system we have people will game it, that's the human modus operandi, exploit every opportunity...that's how living things stay living.
I feel we should focus more on the gap between those at the top and those at the bottom, the vast inequalities that we have now are very destructive imo

Where has this happened?