to wonder why people are so horrible to cyclists that are not breaking the rules?

[DataColour]

Even I get irate at cyclists who go through red lights, pedestrian crossings etc. But how about those that obey the road rules?

This afternoon, cycling with DS14 and DD12, one car honked us whilst overtaking. No reason, apart from the fact that they were delayed by a few seconds as they couldn't go past me within inches to spare. I was riding in the middle of the rode and DD to my left, which is perfectly within the rules.
Minutes later, a road which I always ride in the middle because, if even half a chance, vehicles will overtake without giving any space. A group of pedestrians, shout at us, saying "you should be riding behind each other, what's wrong with you?"??
WTAF???

Why are some people such twats? Luckily (or unlikely) my DCs are used to this, so weren't bothered. Some driver gave my DD (11 at the time) the finger whilst cycling to school. A grown man trying to get one up on a 11yr old girl.

@Reality25

Ok, the Netherlands is a country not far from us. Climate is very similar.

They have shit tonnes of cycling infrastructure which you suggest is impossible.

Ergo, you are unaware of its existence.

Clear enough for you, my little reactive fruitcake?

Number 3 is a fallacy, cycling infrastructure costs less than motor vehicle infrastructure.

nedetherlands has an excellent cycling infrastructure which hasn’t been prohibitively expensive to instal, as it is installed in stages since the 1980s and Denmark has also followed suit

When all factors are calculated, society gains DKK 4.79 per kilometer cycled, primarily due to the large health benefit, whereas it costs society DKK 5.29 for every kilometer driven by car. Here

I am glad that you seem to approve of their existence though (at least I hope that you do) as good cycle lanes must surely alleviate a lot of the issues raised on here.

cycling on decent cycle lanes in Nederlands is wonderful, a 10 year old can use them. But the other big difference is the drivers attitude to the cycle lanes - where they cross a rd the drivers automatically stop - it’s a bit weird the placid nature of the Dutch drivers towards cyclists, opposed to the tense nature of many British drivers

It's the Brits who are the wierd ones.

Probably due to the cycling culture that has long been embedded in the Netherlands and therefore there is a greater tolerance of it. That and the fact that countries such as their's actively seek to find ways of making it work in terms of creating systems that work rather than each council haphazardly embarking on restructure that is inconsistent between counties or even towns. Their evidently more sensible laws or rules must go a long way towards helping too.

8810F. Nothing stopping U.K. adopting similar style cycle infrastructure, if the authorities want people to use it

we have a new housing estate and the cycle lanes are compulsory but don’t actually link up and aren’t tarmaced, so in wet weather terrible

but the road alongside was also compulsory to change, that’s fine

1. It's perfectly safe if drivers and cyclists (and every other vunerable road user) behave respectfully as per the HC.

So the rest of your waffle is null and void. Thanks for playing.

You may be right. I was doing this from memory.

Yes and since then some people have been blaming cyclists for traffic jams (and even the resulting pollution). I’m simply pointing out that cyclists don’t hold you up anywhere near as other cars do. So where’s the anger towards other motorists? Oh that’s right, you can’t be cross at motorists because then you have to admit you’re part of the problem.

I was stuck in a ten minute traffic jam earlier due to cars queuing for a junction. Not a cyclist in sight. If some of those drivers had been on bikes maybe the traffic jam would have been less!

I’m glad to hear that. Because it worries me that the anti cycling frothers will froth away together and winding each other up convince themselves they’re right and be more likely to not be considerate next time they see a cyclist.

There is actually evidence that anti cycling stuff on social media makes this sort of real life behaviour more likely. Next time they see a cyclist they’re still wound up about cyclists.

a friend of mine was killed a couple of years ago by a van while cycling so it’s something which hits home.

Cars/motor vehicles are much much more important for society than cyclists
I strongly and vehemently disagree
cars and motor vehicles are a big part of the reason so many people are fat blimps who can't tie their shoelaces without getting out of breath, not to mention the pollution and the carnage and the damage caused by the weight of heavy vehicles thundering around all the time.
Cycling is a fantastic form of exercise and a very efficient mode of transport.

I dunno. Near where I park my car at work the pavement is very wide and has been allocated as a shared cycle/pedestrian path, divided by a white line with clear signage. All good. There is only pavement on one side and it’s a private road.

A few weeks ago, I turned out of the car park and two cyclists were cycling two abreast in the road on the side I was driving on. I couldn’t overtake. When they got to the lights they went right (could have just continued if they been on the shared space) and I went left.

They weren’t ‘breaking the rules’ or whatever but it was like they’d seen my car and gone in the road to be an inconvenience to me, rather than be safely out of the way on the designated cycle path.

@QuintanaRoo

There is actually evidence that anti cycling stuff on social media makes this sort of real life behaviour more likely. Next time they see a cyclist they’re still wound up about cyclists.

I totally agree with this but I also don't think the situation is helped by some of the attitudes on here from cyclists who seem to resort to swearing and personal insults as a first port of call rather than have a mature debate. I don't mean you by the way.
I am far more likely to be receptive to points of view that are put forward with consideration. I don't have a problem with people cycling and like a PP, I have learnt a few things from this thread that have changed some perceptions I may have had.

@QuintanaRoo

Meant to add, sorry about the loss of your friend.

If slow moving traffic is supposed to move over for other traffic to pass, why don’t drivers do exactly that? Why do they line the congested rds higglety piggelty and not pull over in the lane so there is room for motorbikes and cyclists?

There are plenty of threads about middle lane hoggers, and about drivers doing 30mph, where the limit is 60mph.
The point that I, and others, are making is that cyclists could avoid riding up a dual carriageway, 2 abreast, in a big group, during rush hour. That they could pull in, when they see that they're causing a tailback, instead of holding everyone up, just because they can.
That just because it's within the rules, doesn't mean it isn't inconsiderate and annoying.

In what way am I part of the problem? What are the alternatives to driving?

All road users should have insurance, cars, bikes, horses etc.

I equated the police and the law together.

Holy smoke, and after Google, omg

In what way am I part of the problem? What are the alternatives to driving?

by being in a car causing traffic queues.

I am not saying you have to find an alternative. I don’t cycle everywhere but when I drive I accept I’m causing congestion as is every other single motorist at some point.

So I think motorists just need to accept congestion as part of driving and not get on their high horse and blame cyclists for it when cyclists cause a very small percentage of delays. people just need to chill out and stop being so angry.

What's with calling motorists fat? There's plenty of fat cyclists about too! Not everyone on a bike is cycling up mountains - plenty of fat people on bikes pootling along in a leisurely fashion

On a serious note, I don't think cyclists should be telling posters doing care work for minimum wage that their job/car is a lifestyle choice. It's impossible to care for people in their homes without having a car and lots of employers won't pay for travelling time - being delayed, for whatever reason, is costing these workers their income and to not give a shit about those people doesn't look good when you're trying to come across as morally superior to motorists.

In an ideal world we would have really good public transport that would reduce the need for cars, but we don't. The preferences of the few shouldn't outweigh the necessity of the many.

I don't know why "Which would you rather be hit by?" is always thrown out as some sort of gotcha: I'd rather not be hit by either.

I HAVE been hit by a cyclist as I stepped off a bus. He'd jumped onto the pavement behind the bus as it pulled up to the stop. I broke my collarbone.

Yes and no. Maybe not cyclists themselves, but certainly cycle lanes (usually empty) DO cause traffic jams and increase pollution, but that's the fault of the stupid councils rather than cyclists.

We have a junction in our town, a typical crossroads. Used to be two lanes, left lane was for turning left, right lane was to go straight on and turn right, as marked on the road and signage. Left hand lane was usually queued because the left turn went onto a set of traffic lights and then a roundabout, but right lane was never queued because right turn and straight on were clear.

Council came and put a cycle lane in, so basically removed the left hand lane. Now traffic going in all 3 directions is in one lane and the traffic going straight or turning right is stuck behind the queue of traffic wanting to turn left. The resultant queue can stretch back half a mile and even a mile at busy times.

Like I said, that not the fault of cyclists, it's the fault of stupid council traffic department, but it does cause congestion and pollution, and a lot of stressed/angry motorists!

Re that junction you were talking about. Had it been changed to allow for cycle lanes, cycle traffic lights, etc? A lot of congestion is worsened by provision for cyclists when there aren't actually enough cyclists using their facilities to justify the congestion caused.

but certainly cycle lanes (usually empty) DO cause traffic jams and increase pollution

so why do rows and rows of parked cars never get the blame for congestion?,