to wonder why people still use this word.

[Creepycrawler]

Half caste

My children are mixed race and my son when to his friend's house for a sleepover last night.
I was chatting to the mum when she used this term about another boy who '' is half caste as well''. Luckily, my son was in the car and didn't hear.
I was recently in hospital and having a conversation with someone who also used the term and I excused myself to go outside and sat somewhere else.

... And it's not just here. Several years ago H' s (Nigerian) aunty visited from Africa and used the term. We were both very uncomfortable and H told her we don't use that word.

Do people really not understand that it's offensive?

There is still a lot of racism where we live now (South Wales) and we get a lot of it at school ( where I work). I don't think this woman made the comment intentionally but surely people know by now not to use it?

I've heard it and pull people up about it.

I'm never quite sure why people need to discuss skin colour anyway!

I'm never quite sure why people need to discuss skin colour anyway!
Lucky you...

It's a difficult one because language changes however I think when a description is objectively accurate there needs to be a valid reason to find it offensive. I hate the way that conversation has been closed down. I'm a public sector worker. I'm very guarded about what I say for fear of being accused of racism, bullying (maybe transphobia too).
What is the difference between a coloured person and a person of colour? How light or mixed does a black person have to be before they're not black. Is Obama black? Is he mixed race or is the underlying observation actually that he's not white!
If I had a labradoodle I might describe it as half lab half poodle. I might say it's a mongrel lf I wasn't quite sure of its heritage but it had curly pom pom coat I might say its half poodle. If talking about myself I might say officially lm British but I'm half Irish Half English. Caste makes me think not of race but social standing so if the tealady had a child with the PM the child I guess would be half caste. But it used to mean race. Then there's odd words like quadroon, or quarter negroid.
I think mixed race is probably the safest option and accurate.

Dual heritage has totally derailed the thread here.

Half caste has been unacceptable for decades. To deny that is ignorant.

Mixed race is absolutely fine.

When has conversation been closed down? Why do people say that?
Aren't we discussing it right now?

I used this term until I was 15 and we learned the poem by John Agard in English, halfe cast. It upset me and I'm sorry I ever said it. It's a beautiful, painful way to teach us how wrong we were. I'd never realised it as offensive, until then. I'm sorry more people are still not aware all these years later.

The only people I've ever heard in real life using "half caste" were mixed race describing themselves back in the early 00s

@dontgochangingtotryandpleaseme that's nice for you.

How do you spot and work on problems groups with different appearances experience without having words to describe them?

How do you relate to other people who are similar without words to describe how you are similar?

My heritage can be wildly different from another mixed race brown person but have a lot of overlap in our experiences just because we're both brown and mixed and we will have very different experiences than someone who is brown and no mixed.

Sadly my kids and many others have it discussed on a daily basis.
I work in school and hear comments all the time. In primary as well.

My children were asked if they needed ESOL when we first went to their school purely based on their appearance and second name.

And when I moved here and needed hospital treatment I had a letter saying I would have to pay for it unless I could prove I was a UK citizen. Again, based on my last name. I was born here and been on NHS in England since I was born.

Public sector workers like this make me fear greatly for the wellbeing of my nieces and nephews. Especially as these views are dressed up in yEw cANt SaHY AnYfinK tHeezE dAiyZ c0z iTz rAYcisT

Not everyone is up to date on what is currently acceptable, and others are resistant to change through ignorance. My dad still used the term to describe his step brothers and sisters, that he was very close to, because they all grew up in America and it was an acceptable term in the 60s. I told him numerous times it was offensive but got shouted down for being a woke snowflake. Then he used it in front of his cancer nurse who gave him both barrels and said if he ever said it again she would refuse care. He never said it again after that.

Thank you!

I'm sorry but u think it's ridiculous to say that someone who is still using an outdated term inall innocence because they are genuinely unaware that its no longer polite has "no excuse". That is the excuse - simple lack of information.

I agree that they should then be informed so that they are also in the know. You haven't deigned to give them that knowledge but still want to bitch about how they could possibly not know. Well, presumably because everyone else had also taken the attitude that it's "not their job" to inform them before they came across you. Much better to leave them in ignorance and continue to wonder, unironically, how they could possibly remain ignorant.

What is the difference between a coloured person and a person of colour? How light or mixed does a black person have to be before they're not black. Is Obama black? Is he mixed race or is the underlying observation actually that he's not white!
Obama is mixed because he has a white mother and a black father. However, I think he identifies as black. I don't know though as I've never asked him. Unfortunately for you there isn't a colour chart that denotes a person's race, so you're best off asking them if you're unsure and it's relevant to the conversation you're having. Hope that helps.

@Creepycrawler - I don't know how old your children are but all my black/white mixed race/heritage friends call themselves black. Because the world sees them as black.

And yep, I agree with you that half caste has been unacceptable for years and unless someone is very elderly or has learning difficulties there's no excuse for it.

I work on the basis that the respectful thing to do is to refer to someone in the terms they use to describe themselves.

For example - my primary sense of national identity is British. If someone asks me my nationality, I say I’m British. But within that, I am Welsh. I can own either of those and will not object to either being used - but if someone says “you/we are English” then I will quickly respond with “I’m not English, I’m Welsh.”

Now back to the terms we use when talking about this problematic subject. If you are white and so is pretty much everyone you interact with on a daily basis, you don’t get to hear the terms that people who are not white use about themselves. I would never use half-caste. Some years ago, I was repeatedly shocked by someone who talked about “coloured people”, so I told her that was considered offensive and we should use “black.” She accepted it, because she had no desire or intention to be racist. Now it seems that “black” is not acceptable, though reading this thread I’m still a bit confused as to what is. I would tend to go with “of African origin” (or more specific to the country, if I know, “of Indian origin” or “of mixed heritage” depending.

I guess what I’m saying is: there is a difference between using an offensive term which you don’t know is offensive, and using it when you know full well that it is. And the difference becomes clear when someone tells you you’ve been using an offensive term - whether you accept the correction or not.

Person of colour puts the person first, not the ethnicity. Obama identifies as Black because that is his choice based on his lifetime experience.

I work on the basis that the respectful thing to do is to refer to someone in the terms they use to describe themselves.

Exactly!

I personally haven't used the term in years but I've lived in diverse communities. In SW Scotland I've heard it a few times since relocating and have pulled people up on it.... But they "say" the didn't know it was now offensive. Like another poster said, some places are still very insular.

However, as another poster pointed out, the PC terminology just keeps changing..... Like up until recently it was offensive to use "queer" but that's now glorified, I even remember mixed race being topical at one point. Sometimes it is hard to keep up.

I think a lot of people forget just how white a lot of this country is.
I just looked up the county I was born and raised in and it's almost 97% white now so I imagine it was much nearer to 100% not too long ago. If you don't mix with people of other ethnicities I can understand why some words that are considered offensive can pass you by. You don't know what you don't know.
I'm white, married to a black man, with mixed-race kids. My parents (born in the early 1940s) used to use the word 'coloured', it was what they were taught and they meant no harm by it. We let them know that it wasn't used anymore, they occasionally slipped up, but from then changed to using 'black'.
It is/was ignorance, not malice.

People have a responsibility to educate themselves so that they don’t go around using racist terms like this. It’s completely lazy to expect people to do the work for you. The internet is free.

Seems to be a rule relating to such terms that whichever is "the acceptable alternative" now, will shortly be unacceptable and replaced by something else.

Keeping up with it is one of those never-ending First World chores.

The only times I have heard that said in recent years has been by older generation Caribbean family members when visiting them. They were shocked that we see it as offensive.

All these white people telling other white people what' non white people find "offensive "...

They’re trying to be allies. Like men who pull up other men for misogynistic comments. They might not be getting it right all the time, but they don’t want to leave the racism unchallenged. Is that a bad thing?