to wonder why people still use this word.

[Creepycrawler]

Half caste

My children are mixed race and my son when to his friend's house for a sleepover last night.
I was chatting to the mum when she used this term about another boy who '' is half caste as well''. Luckily, my son was in the car and didn't hear.
I was recently in hospital and having a conversation with someone who also used the term and I excused myself to go outside and sat somewhere else.

... And it's not just here. Several years ago H' s (Nigerian) aunty visited from Africa and used the term. We were both very uncomfortable and H told her we don't use that word.

Do people really not understand that it's offensive?

There is still a lot of racism where we live now (South Wales) and we get a lot of it at school ( where I work). I don't think this woman made the comment intentionally but surely people know by now not to use it?

Mixed race is not an offensive term to people who are mixed race.

White people aren't white and black people aren't black. Not everything needs to be taken literally, it's just how people choose to refer to themselves.

I'll ask again. Offensive to who?

Dual heritage isnt right either.

What if people have more than 2 heritage?

But that's the point. I have Russian, Polish (Ashkenazi Jews), and Dutch heritage.

So what are my kids?

Do I just forget about my own heritage?

Sorry, I meant there that 'dual' in my understanding means two. 'mixed' means more than two.

I think the short answer is, no, people don't know it is a racist term. I didn't until a few years ago. Likewise 'coloured'. I heard them used growing up in descriptive terms and had never as an insult. But I understand now why they are offensive and would never use them.
While it's not your job to educate people, if someone uses it, I think you should assume they don't mean it to be offensive. And maybe, if you feel able to, let them know it's an outdated term.

Dual heritage is not an accurate descriptor for the majority of people who have more than one heritage that I know.

And I think if everyone did their family tree, many would be very surprised at the results. 😀

I remember reading this poem at school and being horrified that people still use the term ‘half caste’.

But then I have been corrected for using the term ’mixed race’, which I grew up thinking was the right terminology.

The reason I was given was that race is a social construct that has been used to excuse racist laws and behaviours (like by people who supported slavery, segregation, and apartheid etc.).

I don’t know how standard this is, but I was advised to say ‘person with dual or mixed ethnicity’. I’ve also known people prefer that people refer to their individual ethnic background (E.g. ‘Kate’s’ ethnic heritage is Kenyan and Irish), but obviously this isn’t possible all the time.

I think more needs to be done to educate people on what language is respectful. There are enough racists for people to contend with, without having to listen to people who aren’t racist use offensive language (whether they mean to or not).

Sorry colourfingers, but I don’t think we should diminish the experience of black or mixed race or any people by us all becoming “all one race- the human race”. We have taught our kids to be proud of their heritage although my husband also has the more serious conversations with them as they grow up and try to make sense of certain things. I get you are speaking from a place of trying to be well intentioned though. Also ‘golden’ reminds me a bit of when my mixed race kids were described as ‘caramel’. 🙈 Lots to unpick here.

@skippy67 look I'm just saying what I learned on an Inclusion and Diversity course that's all! Any other term apart from dual heritage is offensive to anyone of dual heritage according to the course co-ordinator. This is 2023 guidelines so why would anyone deliberately use another phrase?

Im white and it was a phrase used in my childhood- I'm 40ish. But when I was 15 I saw John Agard perform this poem- people will know it, it was on the GCSE for years- and I've never used it since. He absolutely nails why it's a terrible expression.

HALF-CASTE John Agard

Excuse me
Standing on one leg
I'm half-caste

Explain yuself
Wha yu mean
When yu say half-caste
Yu mean when picasso
Mix red an green
Is a half-caste canvas?
Explain yuself
Wha u mean
When yu say half-caste
Yu mean when light an shadow
Mix in de sky
Is a half-caste weather??
Well in dat case
England weather
Nearly always half-caste
In fact some o dem cloud
Half-caste till dem overcast
So spiteful dem dont want de sun pass
Ah rass
Explain yuself
Wha yu mean
When yu say half-caste?
Yu mean tchaikovsky
Sit down at dah piano
An mix a black key
Wid a white key
Is a half-caste symphony?

Explain yuself
Wha yu mean
Ah listening to yu wid de keen
Half of mih ear
Ah looking at u wid de keen
Half of mih eye
And when I'm introduced to yu
I'm sure you'll understand
Why I offer yu half-a-hand
An when I sleep at night
I close half-a-eye
Consequently when I dream
I dream half-a-dream
An when moon begin to glow
I half-caste human being
Cast half-a-shadow
But yu come back tomorrow
Wid de whole of yu eye
An de whole of yu ear
And de whole of yu mind[[https://genius.com/3232243/John-agard-half-caste/But-yu-come-back-tomorrow-wid-de-whole-of-yu-eye-an-de-whole-of-yu-ear-and-de-whole-of-yu-mind-an-i-will-tell-yu-de-other-half-of-my-story
]]
An I will tell yu
De other half
Of my story

   half of mih ear

@AppleDumplingWithCustard Dual heritage means two heritages i.e. one from each parent… yes there may be many ethnic strands and histories, but the idea is that it is there are TWO separate heritages rather than a child with single heritage from parents from the same ethnic background. Mixed race I wouldn’t use as I don’t agree with the notion of race. Person of colour I also wouldn’t use as it’s similarly inaccurate. My kids call themselves ‘mixed’ or ‘brown’. That’s their choice. I say dual heritage.

What ethnicity was the course coordinator? Was the group a mix of races and ethnicities?

The only person I've known use it is someone said 'she's half caste, I'm quarter caste.' So it seems like maybe some BAME (or whatever term you prefer) people might use it for themselves/ use it themselves.

It'd obviously be really wrong and retro for a white person to use it.

I do think a lot of the new teminolgy can be confusing And I also think inadvertently, it can cause racism in itself. It can make people so scared to speak that we will never have the conversations around race that we need and which educate people.
I don't want people to be afraid to talk to my children. I want them to have friends of every race (and they do thankfully).

I’m mixed race and honestly I don’t get offended if I hear that term. I think the terms change all the time because I remember when I was 6/7 and I would say I was half cast and now I say mixed but apparently we should say dual heritage. So I really wouldn’t get offended if someone said it about my kids but that’s me

@skippy67 she was white and has run these courses for years with a wide range of all ethnicities in attendance every year.

Would it be ok to just say black?

I think intent matters. Different people prefer different phrases - even the “correct” terms specified by the latest guidelines are disliked by some.

So I would always go by intent and general tone as an indicator. If there was a word I found outrageously offensive then I’d say, but otherwise I’d not worry about it.

My family is white but I have a disabled DS and we have similar issues re the use of language. People use all kinds of outdated and sometimes awful words when they’re trying to be kind. So I use the rationale I described above - if the individual is genuinely trying to be kind, inclusive and means well, I’m not going to berate them for using a word that was “correct” 10 years ago but that we don’t use now.

Was she white? Did she learn that from someone white ?

In the UK, mixed is the term that I hear the most and it's what I call myself. In other countries they may use other terms like biracial and if someone told that they were biracial then I'd use that term for them.

Yeah, I thought that would be the case...

Yes, my h identifies as black. There's nothing inferior about a black vs white person to me or him.

My kids are not black because I am white so they are mixed black and white.

Half caste is a derogatory term which implies impurity or inferiority.

I missed the update about the course director being white - no surprise there.

I bet that she was trained by a white person too. I'd be very interested to hear if anyone mixed race finds it offensive.

I have to stop and think about what terminology I use. Born mid-60s but brought up by grandparents who were born during WWI. Although not consciously prejudiced, they used outdated terminology. I subconsciously absorbed these terms, so I have to stop myself. By the time my GC are grown up, I am pretty sure views held now will again be viewed differently and, as such, language used.