To think depression isn’t an excuse for selfishness

[Satansgourd]

This has only just occurred to me. I was having a chat with a friend of mine, who I am sure is depressed. She does not have the best home environment, and I know it gets her down. But, having spoken to her yesterday for the first time in a while, I realize that she has not asked me anything about myself in months. We chat daily, mainly at my instigation, and it’s always to ask how she is. I wondered yesterday if she actually is severely depressed and this is making her self focused. Am I wrong? AIBU

Prepare to get savaged OP.
I once posted a similar thread- hurt that a friend ghosted me when she had depression.

It was made very clear to me that regardless of what a depressed person does or says, only their feelings matter, and if you’re not depressed you should cheerfully suck it all up. Because they and their ruminations are the only valid thing happening. And if you think that an acknowledgment or god forbid an apology might be useful for the friendship, well then you are the bad person for being upset at being treated poorly.

It’s not about the depression but the whole ‘they never ask me anything’ is just tedious. If you’ve got something to say just say it. If they then shut you off and are disinterested then fair enough but what is it with people waiting to be asked about every detail of their life before they feel able to disclose something?

It isn’t an excuse, it’s a reason.

From my experience, anxiety and depression are selfish illnesses, it's a symptom

When someone is seriously clinically depressed they can hardly function themselves. They aren't going to ask about you or anyone else because just getting through the day is difficult.
Yes they are selfish but not consciously so. It's a facet if the illness.

Would she usually be more engaged in a two way conversation?

You don’t have to keep instigating contact. If you are checking in with, ‘how are you doing?’ type questions maybe she is simply answering you. Maybe leave things in her court and let her contact you next time and change the dynamics a little?

I'd cut her some slack if she's just being thoughtless and not asking you about yourself. It's not as bad as being actively unkind which many depressed people do.

If they don’t care about their own lives, their own families etc it is unreasonable to expect them to care about other people 🤷‍♀️

I think people in the middle of a mental health crisis can be very focussed on what is happening in their own heads and yes this can make them very self-absorbed. I would always look at the friendship in the whole - is this a new thing, have they been more interested and attentive in the past. If so I would be likely to support them and give it time. If, however, it is on going and you feel strongly that you need them to show an interest in you and your life then it's up to you what you do next. I have someone in my life who has shown next to no interest in my life for years. When she does she listens for 20 seconds and I can see her go back to her internal thoughts. I strongly suspect she is neurodivergent. Having some understanding of her struggles makes me not take this personally. However i know I can't be around her when I'm going through a hard time because I start to feel resentful.

Having said that, I also know some people with depression and other mental health conditions who are really attentive and kind.

It’s not an excuse, but may explain her behaviour.

I experience depression and whilst I have periods of withdrawing from the world, it doesn’t stop me from genuinely thinking of and caring about loved ones. But I imagine everyone’s experience is different.

I am sorry you’re feeling as though it’s one sided right now.

A lot of conditions/illnesses are selfish by their nature. Depression and alcoholism are but two. I say this as a recovering alcoholic. I was incredibly selfish, I kind of knew it at the time, looking back now 7 years sober, it makes me cringe.

I hope no one is horrible to you in this thread. I don't get the impression you are complaining. It's not something they can help. They may have times when they are able to be more considerate but when bad aren't able to do that so yes it feels selfish.

Having said that I think you should be allowed to say if its hard to deal with or be around. Living with someone or being close to someone who has depression is awful.

You've been good at reaching out, if you stop and she is bad she might not be able to reach out herself. That might work for someone who is not depressed but just a bit thoughtless who may realise it's been one sided.

I’ve found this, too. Now depression and anxiety can make a person very introspective and become very self-focused. I know when I was really struggling I really struggled to see outside of myself and realise other people were struggling too. Just in different ways.

it’s possible that she’s totally unaware that she’s doing this and maybe you just need to chip in with how you’re doing etc without waiting to be prompted.

YANBU to find this behaviour challenging because it absolutely is. I always don’t like it when people give people with MH issues a pass for every single bad behaviour they exhibit. It’s frustrating because people with MH issues should still be held accountable when their actions negatively impact other people.

My dad has depression and has had a lot of problems with addiction although he's currently sober. I found many years ago the only way I could have a relationship with him was to accept he isn't capable of thinking about or focusing on anything but his own needs. I expect nothing more from him than with awork colleague or someone I bump into at school pick up and that way I am not disappointed.

That's like saying 'isn't having a broken leg a poor excuse not to be out playing football with us...

People still don't understand mental illness.

All the talk about' poor behaviour' winds me up... As if just trying a bit harder is all that's required to cure depression.

If you are depressed, clinically depressed, as opposed to being fed up or sad, you are living in your own head and you can’t see a way out of it, so it’s not surprising that your friend doesn’t ask about you. She’s too busy being inside her head and trying to function, to have space for you, I’m afraid.

It doesn’t matter what people say, mental ill health is still frequently regarded as self indulgent and something that people can get over, if they just try harder. It hasn’t been helped over the last few years, because the lines have been blurred by self diagnosing and people who are a bit fed up deciding they can’t cope.

That isn’t what real depression is. It’s something you wouldn’t wish on anyone.

It can be incredibly hard to be in any kind of relationship with someone who has depression or anxiety or any kind of mental illness.

I would guess your friend can't see the wood for the trees and has no idea how she is coming across, nor might she have the energy or ability to think beyond her own pain.

And I say this as someone depressed enough to have jettissoned all of my friends.

Even to have met up with you would have been a challenge. Getting up is a challenge. You just feel like staying at home & doing nothing.
You know you’re supposed to do the right things & you pretend a lot. The voice in your head is extremely persuasive.
Hopefully your friend will begin to improve. Then she will become a better friend to you. In the meantime just let her know you’re there for her.

This.

I'm struggling to deal with something so big that I don't have the mental capacity to see outside myself at the moment. This isn't who I am - this is the illness.

I am seeking help, which includes offloading my feelings onto a counsellor. Luckily, my close friends recognise that I'm not a selfish, horrible person; I'm just dealing with an illness that makes me behave in ways that I don't want to.

One of my close friends made clear that a condition of continuing to be friends with her was getting a therapist. It sounds harsh, but she was right to push me in that way because I was pushing her to her limit, and as much as she loves me, she needed to protect herself.

I do tend to withdraw, and TBH, I would find someone asking me how I was daily to be intrusive. I would feel like answering was me being a good friend and not ignoring you, given I would find it such a chore right now. But you wouldn't be getting much back about you, and you wouldn't see it as me putting in the effort even though it would take a lot out of me.

I don't think you should stop talking to her, as that's not helpful either, but I would reduce the frequency of your conversations as I suspect they're not good for either of you. If you spoke to me less often, it would require less headspace for me to respond, and I might hopefully be able to be more two-sided thanks to the space in between.

I find it really difficult to look after myself and get out. Seeing friends is good for me, but I need to have lots of notice so I can mentally prepare to leave my space.

I'm coping by seeing this as temporary. I'm getting treatment, and I know I'm not currently acting like me. Luckily, my friends are special enough that I know they forgive me for being out of character and will still be there when I'm recovered. I think the main thing for them is to know that I am talking to a doctor and I am talking to a therapist - it would be harder for them to stay friends with me if I wasn't seeking professional help. Knowing that I am doing these things lets them dial down their worry about me to an acceptable level.

I don't think its intentional. She probably has no idea she's doing it. When I get "in my head" my thoughts aren't rational. Its hard to describe but also having ocd I have a one track thought pattern that is difficult to break and it becomes very self centered.

@imnotsadyouresad very insightful, thank you.

You’re not unreasonable to get tired of being the one constantly offering support- friendship is a two way street. It is exhausting dealing with people who are unwell, be it physically or psychologically. I say that as someone who has been on both sides of the coin. I agree with posters who suggest taking a small step back and reducing the amount of times you check in. Like someone said, it could work in favour of both of you. When you’re in a really bad way, it truly can be impossible to reach out. Equally you deserve support and need it sometimes also. It doesn’t make you a bad person that you are sometimes at the end of your tether with it all, it makes you human. You sound like a caring friend to me. ♥️

YANBU. Whenever my FIL acts appallingly his excuse is always ‘but I’m depressed, I’m depressed! I’m on ANTI-DEPRESSANTS!!’….. yeah you and half the country mate.

Stop instigating OP!

It’s a reason but tbh mental health is constantly being a used as a justification for all manner of behaviours. It’s become a get-out for people to behave as they like and we must never blame them because “they’re mentally ill.”

I think you can understand that people are selfish because of their mh but I don’t think anyone should just be expected to put up with it, so if people who have depression/anxiety lose friends because of their behaviours they can’t be resentful of that fact.

Most people with depression are actively seeking help not to be. It’s the people who aren’t actively trying to get help who seem to be the most selfish and expect the most leeway.

(And yes I am sertraline myself)