to think electric bikes are a total menace?

[RandomGeocache]

I am not a cyclist hating motorist. But OMG those electric bikes. Regularly drive into Glasgow city centre and they appear to be the transport of choice for people working for Just Eat or Deliveroo.

The electric bikes are FAST. Far quicker than a normal cycle, easily the speed of the cars/lorries/vans. They are not licensed, the riders aren't required to wear helmets, very few have lights back/front, they zip in and out of traffic, through red lights. Accident waiting to happen.

Why are these bikes not classed as motorbikes, requiring a driving licence, r, tax etc?

I'm getting way to involved thinking about Deliveroo now! Maybe a career change is on the cards. I think those who do it as their main income would just have two batteries so can work as long as they wish. The other 'benefit' of the conversion is that the batteries can be far cheaper then the retail ebikes (which is why you sometimes here about these battery fires - some are very cheap and likely poorly soldered together in someones garage).

I guess if you're zooming around at 30mph for the entire day with much less physical effort you're going to be making a lot more deliveries than someone who's working within the law making their own progress and with the income as it is you probably can't afford to drop £2-4k or a decent legal ebike plus another £600 for a spare battery.

So effectively you can provide a similar service/level of work across all the apps against drivers who've shelled out for cars and motorbikes, without having to pay for tax/insurance/mot.

With little in the way of regulation/a government just allowing this to develop - i.e. anyone can buy these things easily, installing them isn't difficult, unless you hit someone and cause injury then there's little risk of prosecution, and on paper they're a pretty perfect method of transport - cheap/virtually free to run compared with fuelling a car, minimal upkeep, quick, i can store it in a hallway or lock it up outside a shop/workplace, i imagine very good fun too!

I live in a very hilly area. I know quite a few people with ebikes because there is a point where, unless you are of Tour de France standard, the hills would just put people off getting on a bike. I ride mine, but not on the steep hills so it does limit where I cycle.

@Thesharkradar are you fit enough to cycle up a three mile long steep hill without stopping? I'm not and never will be.

Do you know how many people are killed and injured by cars everyday? Get some perspective

I'm guessing it's quite flat where you live

I live in a hilly city, I have an ebike and I love it. Intend to go on the lowest support setting but I can whack it on if I get tired or there's a particularly steep hill or there's wind and rain that makes the going harder etc.

Anything that keeps cars out of built up places is good. I rarely see anyone being irresponsible on a bike. Escooters are a different story but at least that keeps drivers on their toes and looking out for other road users. I drive as well!

Absolutely!
I think the main thing that puts a lot of people off using a bike/ebike as regular transport is how busy the roads are, and safety on the road. It's like chicken and egg, these ebikes and scooters provide a realistic (for many not all) alternative to using a car. As more people do so then the roads won't be so congested and the experience will be much better.

I mean many teens/young adults traveling to school or work in a city could make use of the escooters instead of being given lifts. There could be lockers at school for storage, they could be made safer with training courses etc. We can start making progress on reducing the rush hour madness. However currently criminalised so uptake is lower then it otherwise would be and we all crawl along in massive metal boxes traveling in many cases just a few miles.

People aren't doing Deliveroo/Just Eat all day, every day though are they? Most people are ordering takeaways in the evening - 6pm to 10pm probably. Drivers/riders are doing it as a "side hustle" in combination with their regular 9-5 job, or alongside being a student, or on combination with 2 or 3 other part time jobs. In ANY city, there are going to be more of these people out delivering takeaways in the evening than there are between 8am and noon.

Anyway, police don't seem that bothered that there are lots of illegal bikes zooming around too fast, unlicensed, no lights etc.

The OP is clearly talking about the illegally modified e-bikes - there are loads in our city and they are driven extremely dangerously. There are lots of them. I don't understand why the police don't do anything.

@Thesharkradar I'm a big cyclist and always have been. I now have an e-bike. It's not because I'm 'lazy'. Even if it were I'd rather be lazy than a smug bore.

Ok I looked into it, I think the fact that many of the bikes/riders for Deliveroo etc are on rented accounts/illegal bikes is one thing. But ebikes are a good idea and the higher power ones should be regulated so people can use them.

All hail the mighty car, no thanks. I'll take pedal/ battery assisted bikes over them any and everyday, many people in cars always look pissed off and raged up.

Yep, love my ebike on the morning commute. I've got a bench on the back for my kids to sit on so quickly nip them upto school, ride onto school grounds and drop them (primary), then zoom past all the queueing traffic on the way to work. I wouldn't be able to do it by car as it would take too long, but by bike rush hour traffic doesn't hold me up (although would be even more pleasant if the roads were clear).

Even better I can charge it at work so no fuel costs for me at all!

Dh has had one for many years. He's cycles to work 8 miles and home, so 16 miles per day, most days if he can when the weather is ok.

And if I am picking up DS from drama late at night, it's dark and wet, one of these illegal bikes with no lights zooms out of nowhere and I hit him, whose fault is it? Mine? Just because I'm in a car?

There is a whole separate debate about how cycle friendly UK cities are, and having been to places like Amsterdam and Berlin I would argue there is a lot more which could be done.

I am also sure this issue with super fast electric bikes which aren't legal on the road is not exclusive to Glasgow.

So OP is saying that these £700 enhanced motor bikes are being used in place of mopeds? Just as routine transport. To avoid high insurance & needing to have a license, that they would pay on a moped, is that the theory why they do that?

£20 for 12 months road tax on a 50cc moped, so that's not a huge disincentive
insurance from £75... would a new moped rider pay more like £150/year ?

"To ride a moped, learners must: be 16 or over. have a provisional moped licence. complete CBT training."

says Google. I'm not saying that's cost-free, but nor does it sound cost-prohibitive.

So for the £700 motor-enhanced-delimited e-bike to be appealing, it must be useful to people who can't get a license or insurance, like if they have irregular resident status, were previously banned from driving, too young, that kind of thing. These sound like the sort of people who would drive whole cars illegally otherwise. At much higher speeds. Be careful what you wish for.

For all you e-bike riders, which bike do you have? I’ve been looking for ages but they all seem rather heavy.. I’m not very strong to (say) wheel it across the road or move it out of the storage.

I would expect that if they're in dark clothing not using lights and you drove into them then you wouldn't be found at fault, certainly not entirely. Although that's based on watching the road traffic investigation documentaries.

The illegal ebike variety are indeed very popular all over the country, it's the odd occasion where the illegal product is not only much much cheaper, especially if you already have a bike, but for a lot of people is a much better product i.e. you get a throttle, much higher top speed, more power to accelerate quickly/get up steeper hills.

Yes, @SleepyRich, most wear dark clothing. Possibly because they don't want to be spotted by the police. "Normal" cyclists usually have a really bright jacket, or a helmet with a flashing light at least.

Well I would hope on a dark and rainy night, yes, you would take extra care driving, cars are dangerous

It's the young kids on electric scooters with adults that give me the fear.....no helmets and head or other injury waiting to happen.
Yes e bikes also an issue, it's the riding on pavements too...dangerous!

Also on a side note don't get me started on Just Eat, Deliveroo etc and the impact on in-shop customer service....too busy dealing with these orders while I stand there like a chump in the shop waiting for ages for my order.....

Blimey, there is a lot of virtue signalling on here. How nice it must be to live somewhere flat and with plentiful public transport.

The illegal ebikes look amazing fun to be honest. I looked at converting mine once it's out of warranty. I'd have to not get caught though as I'd get points on my licence if I did (I think!)
I wouldn't use it dangerously.

@SleepyRich It really depends what your intended use is. Mine is for long days out and shopping and even though I knew it was heavy when I bought it I still find it too heavy. I can cycle all days up hills and at speed and still don't have issues with the battery but that comes at a price in terms of weight.

I think I'd like a small lightweight foldable town bike too.

I'll end up with so many bikes though - my normal bike, my proper mountain bike, my cheap foldable (ok if gets stolen) my main e-bike and, if I get a small foldable E-bike that seems excessive 😅
Don't forget to factor in the weight of a really decent bike lock if you get a pricey bike. Mine weighs a tonne 😭😭

YABU. Cars are the menace.

@RandomGeocache Yes, it's your fault. Which isn't fair, I suppose, but you made the choice to use half a ton of metal that can move at a speed that kills people. That comes with a lot of responsibility.

Mine is a small (20inch wheels) foldable one which I expect makes it lighter than normal ones. I'm able to carry it up my outside steps into my porch at least and I'm not exactly strong.

I've just got an electric bike I love rurally and I can exercise but not be a sweating exhausted mess when I arrive at my destination. I also had a normal bike but never used it as 4/6 miles with hills was just too much to do in a decent state. I get for proper exercise the normal bone is best but for actually getting around quickly and being presentable the electric bike rocks. I love it.