to think electric bikes are a total menace?

[RandomGeocache]

I am not a cyclist hating motorist. But OMG those electric bikes. Regularly drive into Glasgow city centre and they appear to be the transport of choice for people working for Just Eat or Deliveroo.

The electric bikes are FAST. Far quicker than a normal cycle, easily the speed of the cars/lorries/vans. They are not licensed, the riders aren't required to wear helmets, very few have lights back/front, they zip in and out of traffic, through red lights. Accident waiting to happen.

Why are these bikes not classed as motorbikes, requiring a driving licence, r, tax etc?

Yes this, level 1 compensates for the weight, other ones give it a bit more oomph which is good for going up hills

The motors are speed limited at 15.5ph. They do t assist you above that speed, and they are heavy bikes so not many people could pedals them far at speed without the motor assistance.
Not your general car speed.

Good god why do you care?
Just you peddle about feeling superior on your "real bike" and give everybody se everybody else peace to enjoy their ebikes ignoring cycling bores.

You’re not trying hard enough on the flat if you think that! I did a 35 mile bike ride in the flatlands yesterday and kept my heart rate in zone 5 pretty much the whole time.

I’m happier to take my road bike to hiller areas as well. But the benefit for me with an ebike is off road……being able to get up the hills quicker means more time for descents which is where the fun is in mountain biking.

My other ebike is my commute hybrid, no longer need a shower when I get to work and on cold, wet, dark evenings with a pannier full of work stuff I get home quicker after a hard day work.

I also know someone’s parents who got e-bikes and they did over 2000 miles in a year on them……they wouldn’t have done anything on a normal bike. Contrary to popular opinion you do still work and get your HR up so I imagine for them it will be doing them the world of good.

You’re not trying hard enough on the flat if you think that! I did a 35 mile bike ride in the flatlands yesterday and kept my heart rate in zone 5 pretty much the whole time
@QuintanaRoo for my heart rate to be that high on the flat I'd have to cycle at a speed where I'd not feel safe, I rarely cycle on the roads- too stressful, you cant just put your head down & go for it because of the traffic etc, and off road you have all the dogs & people to content with. I'd like to know where you're cycling that you feel safe to go that fast!

I also know someone’s parents who got e-bikes and they did over 2000 miles in a year on them……they wouldn’t have done anything on a normal bike. Contrary to popular opinion you do still work and get your HR up so I imagine for them it will be doing them the world of good
If your heart rate is elevated on an e-bike isnt that because you're unfit & so your heart is having to work hard even though the exercise intensity is low-relatively speaking?

I think some people are confusing sport/hobby/ fitness cycling, with practical accessible transport. Ebikes are optional fir the first but a game changer for active travel which will eventually get those cars off the road.

Well, they’re not killing people in anything like the numbers that your polluting petrol and diesel cars are killing people!

Cars are far more anti-social so YABU!

A lot where I live have been modified so that they go faster and you don't have to pedal

I don't really care about them as long as they aren't on the pavement

The chavs riding e-scooters on the pavement are a bigger issue for me

Stop moaning here & tell Glasgow police.

Even with entirely functional limiter, bike may go faster than 15mph because human power or gravity is making it go faster.

Part that confuses me is that the couriers are said to be using bikes to go so fast because... I'd expect the battery to conk out pretty fast, and couriers won't have time to get it recharged. No amount of bypassing limiter will increase the battery life. Cycling weekly says max 15 miles if no pedaling at all if 250W. Specialized Turbo Vado SL 4.0 (high spec £3k e-bike) is supposed to be 250Watts, most e-bikes are still 250Watts.. you can buy up to 1500Watts but the price tag on those is astounding, they won't be courier bikes.

@Thesharkradar I’m quite rural so not really an issue. I can go miles without seeing a car. Yesterday for the last 4 miles I don’t think I saw a single car and averaged 17.5mph over 4 miles which is enough to get my hr high!

I have an electric bike, it’s legal because it’s “pedal assist”.
It won’t move unless you pedal.

It does have a top speed of 15km and I never hit that in London traffic. To be fair, the person on a bike is much more vulnerable than anyone in a car.

I appreciate it can be annoying, especially the delivery drivers or anyone who doesn’t follow the Highway Code but please exercise caution and distance around anyone on a bike. It’s a dangerous ride!

Living in hilly north Wales they're very popular especially with retired folks. I find the lycra clad high speed normal bikers are worse around here for totally ignoring the highway code and carving up cars, walkers.

E Scooter use in Rome now that's scary

I don’t think so. I cycle over 100 miles a week on non electric bikes and also do two or three spin classes a week. On a club ride I will average 18-19mph on a road bike and solo a bit over 15mph. That’s on 40 plus mile rides. I don’t think I’m unfit.

If you work hard enough at anything you will get your HR up. So my electric bike the motor cuts out at 15.5mph. If I’m on the flat on tarmac I will often be over that speed…..the bike weighs 23kg. Compared to my carbon fibre road bike which is 7kg. Shifting 23kg takes more effort than shifting my road bike…..plus my electric bike is a mountain bike so really wide, knobbly tyres which have increased rolling resistance on the roads. I tend to only use the second of 5 power levels on the bike to maintain the battery.

Guess if I had it on level 5 all the time my HR might not get up much but I think the battery would die after ten miles! 😁

@QuintanaRoo sounds fab😍I envy you that amount of car free cycling!

And I guess if I rode my non electric mtb up a steep hill maybe I’d be doing 8mph and working flat out.

then if I rode my electric mtb flat out up the same hill maybe I’d be doing 13mph.

so same effort will equal the same heart rate and I go faster on the electric. I guess it means the hill would be over quicker so my hr would drop sooner/I wouldn’t need to keep the effort up as long. But that will be balanced out by me doing a longer ride as I’m not knackered after 25 miles of mtb and can do 40 instead.

There's definitely a lot of illegal conversions going around these days, I think cost has a lot to do with it!

For £700 you can buy a motor and battery off ebay or amazon which you can install on pretty much any mountain bike which will turn it effectively into a motorbike capable of going upto about 35mph, have a range of about 40 miles without peddling, cost pennies to fully charge.

Here for example: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Electric-Conversion-Mountain-Optional-Battery/dp/B07S24TV1J/ref=sr_1_2?crid=16OGM76A661NI&keywords=bafang+top+speed&qid=1682890784&s=sports&sprefix=bafang+top+speed%2Csports%2C104&sr=1-2

Compare this with buying a purpose built ebike which will cost upwards of £2k for anything most would call reasonable quality/not weigh a tonne. Also even if you brought a legal bike it's typically software that stops them going above 15.5mph so as you can imagine unlocking them to use beyond this is just a google away if you wish to.

It's no wonder all the delivery drivers use them! The small technicality of that if you're caught/prosecuted it would be for untaxed, uninsured motor vehicle without an mot.

I agree with you, esp about electric scooters over bikes. A friend died when his went into a wall at high speed, they go far too fast for the amount of control you have.

@lljkk

you can buy up to 1500Watts but the price tag on those is astounding, they won't be courier bikes.

Pretty much the same price surprisingly. There are a couple of people at work who use these bikes - it's a BBSHD motor which at the stock 48v will output around 1000W, however if you use a 52V battery you'll get 1500w quite easily. With the battery it'll set you back a cool £1000 and can easily reach 40mph. The crazy conversions do over 60mph. I believe most of the typical conversions do around 30mph though, beyond which the average adrenaline type gets a bit nervous due to instability/mountain bike brakes etc.

Amazon sells the BBSHD here
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Conversion-Mountain-Waterproof-Electrice-Converter/dp/B0BTDH871F/ref=sr_1_2?crid=UF9D0ZKTAWQE&keywords=bbshd%2B52v&qid=1682891553&s=sports&sprefix=bbshd%2B52v%2Csports%2C100&sr=1-2&th=1&psc=1

1000w if you get a 48v battery
15000w if you select the 52v.

Why doesn't mumsnet have an edit button? That was supposed to read 1500W, not 15000!!!

For £700 you can buy a motor and battery off ebay or amazon which you can install on pretty much any mountain bike

My back of envelope calculations on this business plan go like this:
Free bike from freecycle
£700 motor
Guessing the motor can travel 90 miles with zero pedalling
Supposing owner has all tools & skills to install that motor by self, and pretend their time is worth £0 for installation, or it's a 5 minute job.
Electricity cost to fill up 1500 kWh ... £1 ?, only 5 hours?
Other equipment costs on the bike (it still needs tyres, brakes, gears, lights, mudguards, cables...) but no labour costs because have technical skills to fix everything on bike and would pay for the privilege, might be 5p/mile for replacement parts.
(assume) Each delivery requires 3 miles of travel

I'm getting that Deliveroo earnings max out at about £23/hour, with £12/hour being much more typical maximum.

SCENARIO 1
Average lucrative deliveroo context, 2-3 deliveries/hour, 6 hour shift making average £12/hour, 6 x £12 = £72. 2.5x6x3 = 45 miles travelled. ~£2.35/shift in bike wear.
Need > 10 shifts before start turning a profit.
After that, Net earnings per 6 hour shift =~ £69. So rate is similar to minimum wage, in all weathers...

SCENARIO 2
Very lucrative deliveroo context, 5 deliveries/hour in a 6 hour shift making average £22/hour because 6 x £22 = £132, 6x5 x 3 = 90 miles travelled. 4.50 cost/shift in other bike wear.
Need 6 shifts before start turning a profit
After that, Net earnings per 6 hour shift =~ £126

I have learnt that deliveroo must be extremely popular in Glasgow to make the business model worthwhile.

I suspect quite a lot of the delivery bikes are rented maybe from unofficial businesses. Also a lot of the young guys who ride them probably come from a culture where technical uselessness is not prized like the British.

To be honest I wish they were sorted out to be road legal, it would open up employment opportunities for DS who despite passing driving test has no hope of paying for car insurance and will be working unsocial hours and locations.

Apologies @lllljkk you said the same but to be honest maintenance costs of a bike (tyres etc) are pretty low.

Suppose the bike is rented (with motor etc) for ... £20 for a 6 hour shift?
That would bring typical rider profits down to £52/shift .

As a business model it would make sense if they pay no tax.