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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To take this to the union and HR?

48 replies

FangedFrisbee · 28/04/2023 01:12

I am a nurse in a very busy department, I am off sick. It is a very hard and challenging job, we're constantly running around chasing our arses and staffing and long term sick impacts the operating lists and therefore patients getting their operations done etc. I am aware it's not ideal.

I will likely be off sick for at least another 6-8 weeks minimum. I have cancer

I had a meeting a few months ago with my manager and he said if we'd known you were gonna go off sick this soon into starting we wouldn't have bothered hiring you I had a word with HR and he backed off and left me alone.

Today I spoke to him as part of a formal sickness review, which apparently even though I have cancer and I have provided sick notes to that affect I still need to attend these meetings so I did, he seemed pretty pissed off with me off the bat, probably because I sent him an email to say if he wasn't going to ring me before x time please could we rearrange (context, he set up a meeting for 9am and I sent the email at 12.45pm because he still hadn't called me)

He finally rang me at 6.30(!) and we got the meeting started with him asking so what can we do to support you so that this doesn't become a habit... erm 🫤 well I'm off because I have cancer and I've had significant surgery that I wasn't intending on repeating so it won't be a habit!

Can my union help me? Do I have to have these meetings despite it not actually being useful? I'm not off because I'm depressed or anything. The more time passes the more I'm getting pissed off!

I've changed some things to be a bit less outing but I do have cancer and you can search my posts if you want.

OP posts:
Nat6999 · 28/04/2023 01:57

Definitely speak to your union & HR, he shouldn't be speaking to you like this & next meeting have a union rep or friend with you as a witness.

Blablablanamechangagain · 28/04/2023 02:06

That's disgraceful. I would absolutely be putting in a case with HR yes. If you'd been in a car accident would they be asking the same questions? Utterly ridiculous. Sorry you're having to deal with shit management as well as cancer.

fUNNYfACE36 · 28/04/2023 02:29

Well he sounds the charmer!
However you ae the employee and they are perfectly reasonable to want one meeting every fee months I think.

Allosaur · 28/04/2023 02:35

Yes, absolutely. This just happened with my mum's partner - he was off work for 12 weeks recovering from a spinal tumour removal and he went back to work, and they fired him a week later for the most mundane of reasons! (it was purely because he'd been off for so long and they'd commented about that). Bolster up with union rep and make sure this manager knows it. I would also let colleagues know the situation you're comfortable sharing with so you have some work-support if he tries anything. I'm so sorry you're dealing with this on top of everything you've already been through!

IfOnlyOurEyesSawSouls · 28/04/2023 02:39

@FangedFrisbee i am a nurse ( also off sick due to essentially bullying from mgt).

Bullying is rife is the NHS ... please do go to your union.

I dont know who you are with but GMB have by far been the best union I have had.

Hugs to you. This type of treatment by the NHS is so demoralising and so bad for our physical and emotional wellbeing.

Vegalam · 28/04/2023 04:24

This sounds like a manager who is not using thier head and is literally going by the script on the documents he has to fill out. More NHS tick box exercises.

Very frustrating for you, however unsure what HR will do although always worth bringing it up.

Murdoch1949 · 28/04/2023 04:25

Definitely get support and advice from your union, then inform HR. A union rep will support you in any HR meeting. Unacceptable for you to be treated this way when you are undergoing treatment for a serious illness.

dottycat123 · 28/04/2023 04:53

I have recently retired as a nhs nurse team manager . It sounds as if he is implementing the sickness policy without properly following it, he does have to keep in contact with you but any Meetings should be at agreed times and stuck too. The Meetings are supposed to be supportive and the comments made are not acceptable and certainly wouldn't be supported by HR. I would read your trusts policy on management of absence and complain to his manager about his handling of this. Don't have anymore Meetings without a union rep .

Namechanger1002 · 28/04/2023 05:03

I am sorry for what you are going through OP.
It isn’t just the NHS this happens in. I work in the 3rd sector and recently had to take minutes for a sickness review where the person had literally just suffered a bereavement. I have complained higher up how inappropriate it was and how the person leading the sickness review kept repeating ‘you know the effect on the service, is there anything I can do to help you’ which came across as a box ticking statement and not at all genuine. I have asked HR to see the absence policy - their response was ‘it’s under review’ well, it’s been under review for 3 years!! I can’t even get a copy of the previous policy 🙄
Sorry, no help to you just massive sympathy! 💐

Original poster
FangedFrisbee · 28/04/2023 05:31

Thanks all, I barely slept last night. I have done an online thingy for the rcn but I might also call them at 8.30 when they open.

I am really pissed off this morning. I've gone through my memory of the phone call and he got annoyed with me for being frustrated that he called me 8 hours later than he said he would. However my main gripe is a throwaway comment about how I looked ok when he saw me at McDonald's 2 weeks ago.

2 weeks ago I did go to McDonald's he is correct, it was at about 5pm and it was a day after my surgery on the way home from hospital, I went in to order and use the bathroom, went back to the car gave my husband who was driving the receipt so he could go in and collect it! I certainly didn't drive there and I only went in to use the loo.

I didn't think going to McDonald’s on the way home from being an inpatient was not allowed whilst on sick leave, I must have missed that in the policy!

OP posts:
barefootgoddess · 28/04/2023 05:37

The Mac Donald's comment is bad!! What an arse. Sorry OP, hope you get better soon.

CarrotCake01 · 28/04/2023 05:45

I would certainly reach out to your union rep for some advice. I used to be a union rep in a previous place of work and he would absolutely step in if someone was being bullied like this.

I hope you find some support OP, what you're going through must be tough enough without your boss breathing down your neck. It's not like this is your preferred outcome. You'd rather be at work than suffering the way you are but that's not the hand you were dealt and you shouldn't be getting picked on for it.

Anon1368 · 28/04/2023 05:57

The NHS has the most awful sickness absence policy and attitude. It's stupid because they lose staff over it. People get sick. Support them and they come back. Treat them like crap and they find other jobs elsewhere once they're well again. Being ill doesn't mean you have to be housebound. It's none of his business if you go to McDonalds. Eating doesn't make you fit for work. Neither does walking down the road, swimming. Or even going to the pub. They have no right to bully you into being a hermit. I would definitely involve your union.

Namechange224422 · 28/04/2023 05:57

Next time you have a meeting record it. Write a word for word transcript of the call. Send it to him and ask him to sign it off as a fair record. Cc in HR.

Privatemedical246 · 28/04/2023 06:04

He shouldn't be holding formal reviews without HR presence is my understanding so he on shakey ground. I would write an email following our previous meeting regarding my sickness. I would request that HR representative is included in all meetings and they they go ahead at the scheduled time and copy HR in too.

Beseen22 · 28/04/2023 06:13

Wow his comments are insane. Honestly i'd be really thinking about whether i would want to be part of a team like that. Have you got a few years NHS service? How long have you been off? If you have a sick note from your doctor he shouldn't be commenting on where you go, there is a massive difference between going to mcdonalds and working on a heavy manual job. I would expect someone who has had major surgery to be supported, kept in touch with but not hounded, I wouldn't expect you to be working for at least 6-8 weeks post op and realistically be non clinical for a period of time.

We are speaking about a job where you need to be able to turn heavy non compliant patients and be able to do CPR which is physically exhausting for those who have not had recent surgery. Its a massive risk you being on the floor when you are not fit.

I know you don't want to go through it when you have so much going on but I'd honestly raise a grievance for his comments. To me the relationship has broken down and I'd want to be transferred, I couldn't work for someone who treats someone going through cancer with such disrespect. If he's that horrible to staff I can't imagine he's much nicer to patients.

strawberryfluff · 28/04/2023 06:18

That is awful I would ask for a member of HR to be present at these meetings in future and yes your union can help - you might be able to ask a union member to be present too. I'm sorry that this is happening to you.

Original poster
FangedFrisbee · 28/04/2023 06:20

@Beseen22 yeah that's what has really pissed me off. I can walk in and order a McDonald's, go to the toilet alone but ask me to arrange a patient for a spinal surgery or assist a surgeon with a hip replacement and I've got no chance!

I'm 2 weeks post surgery and it hurt a bit still even just changing gears whilst driving!

I've completed an online form for the rcn and they open at 8.30, I think i will call them.

I'm 31 so I've got a long time to go before retirement, I am really considering my future within the nhs if I'm totally honest

OP posts:
Bearpawk · 28/04/2023 06:29

HR Here and i also have cancer. You are protected under the equality act here. It only means they have to make REASONABLE adjustments for you but he sounds like an absolute idiot who doesn't know what he's doing.
In your case I would:

  1. Request a copy of your sickness policy and ask if they have a specific cancer policy.
  2. Write down his inappropriate comments whilst still fresh in memory - any witnesses?
  3. Raise a grievance through HR (mention the equality act 2010) about the above comments and inform your union
  4. Any future meetings re sickness, ask for a witness from HR, ask if you can record on your phone. Make notes at the meeting, including any more in appropriate comments.
  5. Drop into the complaint that it's worrying that a so called manager doesn't understand the difference between popping into a food outlet to use the loo and get food on the way back from an appointment, and working a physical 12h shift.
mollibu · 28/04/2023 06:54

I had a few weeks off to recover from my miscarriage (also NHS) and I was asked the same question in my return to work meeting about what they can do so this doesn't become a habit! And also I was asked was I aware of the impact my sickness had on the department and my fellow colleagues Hmm

I was very honest and said I didn't care! I had bigger things to worry about at the time... and it was my first sickness since joining the NHS years ago!

devildeepbluesea · 28/04/2023 06:57

As PP have said, cancer is a disability for the purposes of the equality act (one of only a handful of conditions which are covered automatically).

Definitely go to your union and definitely raise a grievance. That clown of a manager needs training

Dibbydoos · 28/04/2023 07:18

When did you join the team? Did you have cancer then? i appreciate you dont need to disclose, but your absence adds to the stress in his team, so he thinks you're a bad hire. Are you?

Sorry OP, I know you have cancer, but if someone with such medical needs joined my team I might feel annoyed with myself as the manager too. Not because you have cancer, obviously, but because I made a hiring error that will negatively impact service levels, the rest of the team and my budget.

Having said that, his behaviour is OOO. I'd at least make sure you were OK and offer support, which is what the calls are about. They are also to check on health progress so you can agree a rtw, but cancer is a difficult health condition to manage.

I wish you the best of luck. Kick cancer in the nuts x

Whenisitsummer · 28/04/2023 07:26

I work for the NHS and as part of my role do sickness reviews. This ‘manager’ is awful. It is appropriate to keep in touch with you whilst you are off sick but the priority would be to support you and your well being. If I was you I would write a letter of complaint to HR , involve the union and if it hasn’t happened already ask for an occupational health referral. Your manager has handled this badly - it is very poor leadership. It wouldn’t happen where I work ( bullying is not rife) so don’t accept this as something that just happens in the NHS.

missingeu · 28/04/2023 07:26

I'm so sorry you're going through this and glad you've got a good advice on this thread. Hope RCN are supportive.

I'm also NHS and at times I can't believe how uncaring and unsupportive NHS management can be. They would never treat a patient how they treat their staff. It's disgraceful, I definately would not support my children working for NHS.

Take care of yourself and the time you need to recover.