To take this to the union and HR?

[FangedFrisbee]

I am a nurse in a very busy department, I am off sick. It is a very hard and challenging job, we're constantly running around chasing our arses and staffing and long term sick impacts the operating lists and therefore patients getting their operations done etc. I am aware it's not ideal.

I will likely be off sick for at least another 6-8 weeks minimum. I have cancer

I had a meeting a few months ago with my manager and he said if we'd known you were gonna go off sick this soon into starting we wouldn't have bothered hiring you I had a word with HR and he backed off and left me alone.

Today I spoke to him as part of a formal sickness review, which apparently even though I have cancer and I have provided sick notes to that affect I still need to attend these meetings so I did, he seemed pretty pissed off with me off the bat, probably because I sent him an email to say if he wasn't going to ring me before x time please could we rearrange (context, he set up a meeting for 9am and I sent the email at 12.45pm because he still hadn't called me)

He finally rang me at 6.30(!) and we got the meeting started with him asking so what can we do to support you so that this doesn't become a habit... erm 🫤 well I'm off because I have cancer and I've had significant surgery that I wasn't intending on repeating so it won't be a habit!

Can my union help me? Do I have to have these meetings despite it not actually being useful? I'm not off because I'm depressed or anything. The more time passes the more I'm getting pissed off!

I've changed some things to be a bit less outing but I do have cancer and you can search my posts if you want.

Your manager is an arse I had an employee (part time admin not nhs) who would get a sick note every few weeks then post photos on holidays / trips out / nights out
hr said I couldn’t address it as she was off sick and might be good for her health to do these things so to bring up you nipping to McDonald’s is ridiculous
hope HR and your union intervene!!! You don’t need this added stress

NHS isn’t it. Paid to look after sick people, treat their staff like shit.
If I wrote a list of inappropriate remarks from my managers it would fill a page.
The one that infuriated my dh was when I was working a weekend and got an (sexually) abusive phone call. The manager on the day was really good and told me not to answer the phone and she would pick up the calls.
My actual manger laughed and said ‘you know you love it.’

@Dibbydoos very unhelpful comment, I hope you don't speak to your reports like this as a line manager.

He should have referred you to occupational health and definitely get your union involved. On your trusts intranet there should be an absence policy. Read that it will help to just have some knowledge of policy

I hope you aren't really a manager. You're a liability for your company and a pretty shocking manager.

p.s. My friend with cancer is in the NHS and I have to say has been treated really well by management. It's easy to make sweeping generalisations, and fashionable to knock the NHS.

Yes OP, you really must try to get out of this habit of getting cancer. Christ on a bike what a knob end. No more meetings unless minuted and with HR and a union rep if you have one. Make a written complaint to his manager and copy in HR, being sure to mention the Equality Act.

I'm sorry your manager is a dick, I hope your treatment goes smoothly.

You should be able to get hold of the Trust sickness policy and template letters from the intranet- i know my Trust we can login to the intranet from home.

Whilst he is following the general idea of the policy, the things he is saying to you are not in the spirit of helping you to get better and it would be worth making a list of them as they are discriminatory

I’m so sorry you’ve had this experience and hope your condition improves.
As someone who has worked in sickness absence management, this is totally unacceptable of your manager. It is perfectly OK to have “check-in” meetings while you are off sick but the tenor of these should be to see how you are progressing and discussing any support or adjustments the employer may be able to offer, not to chastise the employee for being off in the first place. The McDonalds is also unwarranted - so many managers don’t seem to understand that doing something like that does not mean you’re up to a full day’s work in a physically demanding role!
I hope you’ve now had some response from the RCN and, if you feel you can muster the energy, raise a grievance and get HR involved.
Best of luck and good wishes for your recovery.

I honestly don’t know what to say OP, this is beyond shocking on multiple levels.

He needs to be fired. I’ve never heard anyone spoken to like that who has cancer and he works within the NHS as well.

I’m sure you have enough going on in your life but I would escalate the shit out of this. Document every conversation with direct quotes, ask to have others in meetings etc.

Good luck to you.

Op has done nothing wrong, her manager is an arsehole. There's some things you have to make allowances for! Disgusting attitude from the NHS of all organisations.

how awful

I have cancer

My employers have sent me flowers and told me to let them know when I am ready for an occupational health review, also offered me to return part time

You need to complain about this manager, I would go to your union and let them go to HR on your behalf.

good luck

speedy recovery xx

Firstly, I’m very sorry to hear of your cancer, and hope you are recovering from your surgery.

I am a retired nurse and had some similar issues with performance management so might be able to help.

First, get hold of your trusts sickness policy and really read it. Are the trust following procedures as set down by the policy? It should state in the policy the correct procedure for the trust to follow with absences. It should also cover different types of illness such as chronic, disabilities and life threatening etc. If they are not following correct procedure the union will point it out very quickly and advise you of what to do. The policy will also state when the first meeting should take place what will trigger it and the pathway afterwards. Again, the union should be able to ensure the trust are absolutely following policy.

Second, your union can absolutely help you, so get them involved very quickly, as you need support. I had union representation with me for every meeting. In fact I refused to accept a meeting as my union rep wasn’t available on that date. Don’t go to these meetings in your own.

Are you seeing occupational health? I self referred myself as I knew I would have issues with management…. but in any case your line manager should have referred you. Having said that, my trust ignored the advice of OH but it did help me…

The fact you are covered by sick notes won’t actually mean much I’m afraid. Depending on the policy, and that is why it’s so important to know exactly what it says, the trust may start a formal disciplinary against you for sickness absence. Again, this is why the union support is vital.

And finally, your managers comments are unacceptable. As is his idea of timekeeping… was the meeting just you and him? If it’s a formal meeting then there should be HR and your union rep if you wish. Did you get a letter from the trust asking for a meeting? If he had set up a meeting for 9am I would have turned off my phone at 9.45. Totally unacceptable. Speak to your union today, and tell them what’s been happening. They will tell you how to proceed, but it does seem like this manager is bullying you. His staffing problems are not your concern. Don’t allow him to guilt trip you. You are ill.

Sadly, the NHS is full of bullying managers…been there
Good luck with your recovery xx

It's so appalling when they just follow the script. My friend's child died tragically, she was hauled in for a sickness interview and asked what can we do to avoid this happening again in the future. Also NHS coincidentally.

Union, HR, and Occi Health. All 3 should tell him to shut the fuck up.

I think it's regulations now that all hospitals should have a "freedom to speak up" guardian or whatever it's called. Its sort of someone you can internally whistle blow to, without it all kicking off. It might be worth you finding out who yours is. I spoke to ours when my Manager was being an obscene sexist knob and he was FANTASTIC. It wasn't quite what his job should be dealing with, but he talked me through what would happen if I reported my manager etc. Find out if your hosp have one and ring them.

You could also consider raising a formal grievance. Even if you don't want to, telling him your considering it might focus his mind on what he should and shouldn't be saying.

A little update if anyone is interested.

I spoke to the RCN and they were very concerned I had had a formal meeting over the phone, plus the fact he called me 8 hours later then planned, plus he said he'd call me again on the 18th May at 10 but with the caveat of 'I'll try to call at 10 but don't hang around the phone all day because I might have to do xyz and if I do I'll just call you at the end of the shift.' ...

So they're going to call me on Tuesday and get all the formal bits done and then a union rep will be representing me from now on.

To answer any questions I started working for the department in march 2020 and have worked all the way through Covid where we had a lot of deaths and honestly it was shite, I did have 4 weeks off previously in 2021 when I had a miscarriage and he put me on a warning for sickness absence because it was over 28 days and when I questioned whether or not it counted because it was sickness relating to pregnancy he said *because you didn't have a baby it will count towards your sickness trigger' I let it go because I felt awkward about talking about my miscarriage (16 weeks which is why I took a month off)

Honestly he's a huge prick and I don't care if people recognise me from this post. I'm not going to let this lie, I've got nothing else to do.

He was really confused as to why I was being paid full pay still because he thought I'd be moved to half pay in April because I hadn't worked for the trust for more than 3 years (I have now obviously) but because ive worked for the nhs for 14 years consecutively I get 6 months full sick pay and 6 months half pay and then SSP.

So frankly he can swivel.

That's hideous. I'm so sorry for your friends loss

No, I didn't have cancer when I started my job.. although even if I did I'd be protected by the equality act with regards to time off for surgery or appointments. I got redeployed to cardiac icu during Covid through my job and worked in icu for 2 lock downs; I did bed side surgery assisting surgeons and took countless people to theatre to have emergency surgery at 15 minutes notice after having to live in a hotel or hospital accommodation to stop my husband from getting Covid. I assisted with over 20 heart transplants and 2 heart & lung transplants in covid patients.

I've worked my arse off for this trust and this department, the least they can do is call me on time and not try and sack me for having cancer

I just don't want to be sacked, although if I am sacked I will take them to tribunal. I'm not letting this go

I am sorry you are going through this 💐
This thread has really good advice for anyone experiencing sickness related work place issues.

I work for the NHS (non clinical) and would be horrified to discover a colleague was subject to this appalling management behavior. I certainly don't manage my staff in this way.

I'm so sorry you're being treated like this. Thank you for everything you do as a nurse. I hope this man gets a rude awakening about the seriousness of his actions and some management training. You already have grounds for a grievance.

Do not give up, I'm pleased to hear you have support from the RCN. Good luck with your treatment and recovery.

He sounds awful. Good on you for reporting it. I hope your recovery continues to go well

Good for you OP 💪

This is awful. Totally agree you should take this further.

If this is how he treats someone with a clearly identifiable illness, I can't bear to think how someone who is off with something less visible like stress or depression or chronic fatigue would fare.

All the best raising this and wishing you the quickest recovery.