"They"

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Anyone else get a bit frustrated at this mythical "They" referred to and deferred to at all times on MN?

Examples:

They have changed my favourite product formula
They are building too many expensive houses
Now They are raising grade boundaries
Now They have stopped prescribing the product I want
Now They want to make people exercise more
Now They are telling us xyz
Can They do this?

We are not a "done - to" population. We get 14 years free education, and however hard it is at home, that is 14 years full time on school premises, for most people - I have known teenagers sleeping rough continue to work hard in their education and smash it.

We have so many opportunities, maths and English tuition remains free for life, jobs are easily obtained, training and promotion is available for those who work hard.

There isn't a "They" of overlords doing things to helpless little us - if you feel strongly about the NHS, or education, then train and qualify and get into that area yourself, if you feel strongly about politics then get involved, if you feel strongly about the food and drink, transport, whatever, get your self into that sector.

In most cases there is absolutely nothing stopping you.

AIBU to think this helpless attitude is babyish, unnecessary and a bit pathetic? If you want change, be the change, or at least acknowledge that you could be the change, but you cant be arsed! rather than acting as if you cant do anything because of "They" controlling you and preventing you.

There is no "They". We are "They"

I agree that an awful lot of grown adults have a ridiculously childlike sense of entitlement married with a victim complex. Including me I expect!

Completely missing the point of thread, but this made me smile. My dm who died just over 3 years ago used to say “they say you should never put pepper on potatoes” whenever someone mentioned the mythical “they”. All my friends say it now, it’s also a family classic. It always made me laugh, I always pepper my potatoes and have no idea where she got it from but I’d not thought of her saying it for ages. So thank you ☺️

perfect response! I am going to adopt this! and I also put loads of pepper on my potatoes

Yup completely agree with you!

I mean I think it’s equally irritating to hear platitudes like ‘nothing can stop you’ because someone on mumsnet knows homeless teenagers who have ‘smashed’ their education. The fact is everything isn’t just up to you and you can do anything. If a young teenager at school is homeless and still at school that is a societal failing. It is not helpful to imply that they can do just what anyone else can and should just work harder. They have been failed by society at that time - they don’t just need to ‘work harder.’

Yes, my particular favourite is when all the conspiracy theorists come out on facebook and refer to "they" all the time.
Who are "they"? If you are going to make such a strong statement then you need concrete evidence from where the source came from. If you can't give me that then you're chatting shit

I know what you mean OP, but isn't it usually just a handy shorthand? If you're commenting that your favourite product has changed, how would you prefer it to be phrased?

If thats the hill you want to die on

Be my guest 😆

And some of it is contextual reading too. If someone is saying ‘they have changed the ingredients in my favourite Heinz soup’ then you can infer quite easily that ‘they’ means the Heinz company.

She was a wise ole woman, got plenty more where that came from!

Sometimes it's just a handy linguistic expression to handwave a vague concept of 'someone else' though, isn't it?

'They're building a new estate on the other side of the ring road.' etc

but somebody in that situation does have to work harder than others, as do students with lower intelligence, as do students with evening and weekend jobs, as do students without parental support, as do students with English as a second language - life isnt fair! But almost everyone has opportunities for education, even if they might have to work harder at it than others

There isn't a "They" of overlords doing things to helpless little us - if you feel strongly about the NHS, or education, then train and qualify and get into that area yourself

Cool. I'm 45 and feel strongly about the legal system, the NHS, education, housing and public health. I'm looking forward to really smashing it and making an impact when I'm 85 and trained and qualified in those areas.

In the meantime I'll just use all the power I have to hold people to account... Which as a working-class woman is moaning on twitter and using my single vote.

At least there's not a privileged class of elites changing laws to make it harder to vote or protest- oh wait.

It’s irrelevant. There is a huge societal failing if children and teenagers are homeless and going to school each day. They are being failed by the school and our country’s social services. Saying there’s no excuse because they should just work hard and ‘smash their education’ so that they can do anything is just making excuses and shrugging our duties to safeguarding. It’s as unhelpful as the generalised ‘they.’ And it makes you sound a bit ignorant to insist everyone has the same opportunities without taking into accounts the huge barriers some people have.

This was a pet hate of my late dad
If anyone said ' they ' he would demand to know who , or what , ' they ' were.
Mostly , I think , people mean governments or the council or anyone in authority to whom we pay our taxes.
I have a colleague who believes nearly every conspiracy theory going and often goes on about ' they' this and that. Mostly negative things tbh.

When people use 'they' in the context you are describing they are quite clearly referring to those in power positions. There is nothing mythical about those people. They exist and their decisions dictate many aspects of our lives.
To imagine there is nothing stopping people from reaching the level of power required to make or even influence those decisions is extremely naive. The level of power and hence control over our lives we are able to gain can be subject to so many things, our sex, race, age, socio economic start point, intelligence level, physical ability and in no small part, our good or bad fortune. Even where we are fortunate enough to achieve influence in one sphere of life, we will lack it in others. So no, I don't think that a person complaining that they can't get their medication because 'they' are have decided to no longer supply it can solve their own problem by taking a chemistry A level and suddenly becoming the CEO of a pharmaceutical company.

It’s like Trumps mythical “people” who tell him how great he is

Right, but it's naive to think that anything is possible for anyone with the right amount of work. There are plenty of things I can't change about my life with all the good will in the world.

As for retraining and qualifying to get into a sector I care about - well yes there is something stopping me, as I would assume there is for a lot of people - I depend on my wages and I can't afford to stop working to re-enter education.

Why can't we hold governments accountable for their decisions? They're supposed to be our representatives, and they do control vast amounts of our lives, like it or not, via the policies and laws they make.

of course it is a huge societal failing

That is not what this thread is about though

This thread is about most people having opportunities, including even the most disadvantaged people, and there being little excuse not to take them

( and how are rough sleeping teens being failed by the school? In my experience they are supported hugely by schools)

You can’t see how it’s a failing of the school if they are aware that a child is sleeping rough and nothing is done about this?

And the point is that there is an ‘excuse’ not to ‘take opportunities.’ You’re ignorant of them, but that doesn’t mean that those reasons don’t exist. Not everyone can access the same opportunities as everyone else. It is dismissive and rather stupid to insist that they can.

But anyway, if you find the whole thing a big issue maybe stop moaning about it online. Get back to uni and train in English language, then take opportunities to work for the Oxford dictionary, and change what the word ‘they’ means. There’s no excuse, you can change anything yourself. You’re not just a ‘done to’ person, people aren’t just saying ‘they’ and you have to do it. Just change it.

what exactly do you think the school can do about it? nothing

The UK is a nanny state.

"They" is Nanny!

I agree with you about some people being helpless but I disagree that "they" is being used incorrectly. It's obviously shorthand for Heinz, the council, the Minister of Education etc
People can't become Minister of Education or Head of planning at their local council overnight and change things to how they'd like. Most people are interested in more than one area and it's not like you can be CEO of Heinz, Minister for Education, Chancellor and Minister for Health all at the same time.

I agree that people should be more specific rather than saying 'they'

But many decisions are being made by organisations on which seem to be unable to have any say. So YABU