"They"

[Nimbostratus100]

Anyone else get a bit frustrated at this mythical "They" referred to and deferred to at all times on MN?

Examples:

They have changed my favourite product formula
They are building too many expensive houses
Now They are raising grade boundaries
Now They have stopped prescribing the product I want
Now They want to make people exercise more
Now They are telling us xyz
Can They do this?

We are not a "done - to" population. We get 14 years free education, and however hard it is at home, that is 14 years full time on school premises, for most people - I have known teenagers sleeping rough continue to work hard in their education and smash it.

We have so many opportunities, maths and English tuition remains free for life, jobs are easily obtained, training and promotion is available for those who work hard.

There isn't a "They" of overlords doing things to helpless little us - if you feel strongly about the NHS, or education, then train and qualify and get into that area yourself, if you feel strongly about politics then get involved, if you feel strongly about the food and drink, transport, whatever, get your self into that sector.

In most cases there is absolutely nothing stopping you.

AIBU to think this helpless attitude is babyish, unnecessary and a bit pathetic? If you want change, be the change, or at least acknowledge that you could be the change, but you cant be arsed! rather than acting as if you cant do anything because of "They" controlling you and preventing you.

There is no "They". We are "They"

Your entire OP comes across as saying 'oh well, we can't expect governments and corporations to meet their obligations, and therefore if you struggle in life it's your own fault'.

Very American of you.

It's ridiculous zero sum thinking. Of course people should work hard with what (little) they have. But equally we should expect those who have power to meet their societal obligations, and we should understand that lack of equal opportunity leads to lack of equality - and do something about it rather than leave the individual to it.

When people refer to "they" in general terms, it just makes me think of conspiracy theorists.

But when talking about something specific, eg, like education, I just think it's shorthand for the Department for Education which has a lot more syllables.

Report that there is a child apparently living on the streets to the appropriate services and continue to report it. Pretty obvious, really.

and what do you think happens when a school does that?

Well I suppose in your world the teenager just continues sleeping under a bridge while smashing their school work because nothing stands in the way and everyone can do everything!

Or in reality the child will often be supported by social services or removed to foster care.

no, in reality they are often not supported in any way, or moved into foster care. Very sweet ad nieve idea, but not real life. Maybe under 14 they stand more chance, but very little chance from 14 upwards.

so back to my original question, what do you think schools are supposed to do?

I do agree there is no 'they' and it can sound like a conspiracy.

But i think you are overestimating the power of an individual to effect change. I do have a cause i work hard to make better but its like pissing into the wind.

It is also not possible for me to simultaneously train in, work in, improve from the inside and campaign about all of the issues that I care about. I am more than a single issue.

I have some basic level of expectation that our elected representatives and the civil service use our tax reciepts for the benefit of the country and run it in a vaguely competent way and reserve the right to moan about them when they dont. Particularly between elections.

It’s not naive 😂 I was in foster care as a teen! I think if anyone is naive on here it’s you, who insists that there are no barriers and everyone has great opportunities and can’t use any excuse for not achieving well.

It’s not a MN thing people say it all the time.
especially my mother
“they are closing the doctor surgery”
”they are proposing to house asylum seekers in the village”
”they’re saying it’s going to rain”.

it’s not usually a conspiracy theory situation but just a kind of shorthand which I find profusely irritating and it sounds ignorant imo.
I just want to reply “who?” All the time. Because half the time “they” probably means an article in the daily fail.

Doesn’t ‘they’ just been the ptb for that particular situation. The ‘they’ are them (the ‘big’ people) and the ‘we’ are us (the ‘little’ people).

A rough sleeping under 18 year old would be supported by social care and provided either with accommodation via a group like St Basils or taken into local authority care under s20 and if a school fail to report it they would be failing in their safeguarding duty

I think "smashed it" annoys me waaaaay more than "they", to be fair.

@Nimbostratus100 I ended up informally fostering a 17yo (who is still a family member 5 years later). There were serious concerns at home, social services involvement, mother with mental ill health issues but also abusive/neglectful - this young person had no showering facilities, no way of washing clothes, no hot meals (often no meals at all), strange men coming and going. They ended up living permanently with me and my DC. And believe me, the school (6th form) was involved every step of the way. They were fully aware, liaised with me and with social services, checked me out (and rightly so). 'They' in this case did what they should have done.

Which is why my foster son is now doing well.

You may have a point in there but its garbled and based on a flawed premise.

There is no "mythical They". It's just language shortcuts that are perfectly normal and correct.
They have changed my favourite product formula....They are the people who make the product. If the formula changes, They have changed it.
They are building too many expensive houses....They are the developers, the landowners etc.
Now They are raising grade boundaries
Now They have stopped prescribing the product I want
Now They want to make people exercise more
Now They are telling us xyz

All of these have "Theys". There's nothing wrong with the terminology.
I think your actual point is peoples attitude to authorities and opportunities, but you've built it very oddly.

well, thats great, doesn't mean anything would happen if I called social services and told them a 17 year old was sleeping rough.

In fact last time I called about a 14 year old, I got the response "dont worry about her, we are expecting her to be in prison soon"

With a different 14 year old social services specifically told me they would do nothing at all, and advised me to take her to a different county and dump her there as there were rumours the local social services there might have placements available.... but she absolutely must not admit where she came from. we did - they didn't.

you can report until you are blue in the face, mostly nothing happens - there is certainly not any available accommodation.

It isnt what this thread is about, but there are some very sweet and innocent minds posting here.

I have known families with 2 year olds sleeping rough. Some people dont have much idea of what is going on.

not that this is what the thread is about - I was simply using rough sleeping as an example -

You need to get out more @Nimbostratus100 Maybe get a few hobbies... You are waaaay overthinking all this. Who gives a shit if people say 'they' when talking about something? What an incredibly odd thread.

That’s lovely 🙂

Oh bugger off with your bootstrapping ableism.

No one person can fix societal problems and implying they can is bullshit. What we need is to pull together and unionise and work together to fix problems. Not demand those that society failed work harder as if they are the problem.

I can see both sides. I agree with you, people should put their money where their mouth is. Don't complain that you aren't happy with decisions if you haven't offered to contribute to the discussion.

But equally, I think it's naive (or disingenuous) to say we're all on a level playing field with equal opportunities. Much of the political elite are private schooled, extremely privileged and well connected individuals. They aren't generally the average Joe who enjoys a good debate. Similarly, women are mostly underrepresented in positions of authority and power. That clearly isn't because we can't compete or compare with men.

So I agree, people need to be proactive around the things they want to change. But I equally feel that systems need a good overhaul and that it's not unreasonable to acknowledge that we are often done unto in a way that many people don't like, because it suits a minority powerful.

Well said.

I agree partially, because people should be more engaged with proper research about who to vote for in elections and people should take an active interest in how things that affect all of us are run.

However, it is impossible sometimes to make the difference you want to make. I didn't vote tory, never have, but but THEY are in charge and I very much see it as an us vs. them situation.

I am a teacher so very much involved in trying to make education better, but feeling rather despondent and burnt out as I'm just one person so I can't fight the system all by myself. As I'm so busy 'fighting the good fight' in school,I have no time or energy left to sort out the mess left by Brexit, the NHS, food prices, etc. There will always be a THEY who has to do something. It's just division of labour.

People like you with your attitude are part of the problem with the fabric of our society Op. Not the poor bastards who don't have a chance.

I thought like you when I was younger, but I just do not any more. You cannot just change the world for the most part. You can make a difference,but v v few people actually really make big changes.

That is not to say we cannot try, or we should not. But I am not doing big trying anymore. It negatively affected my mental health for a while. I could not do it any more and I stopped looking, stopped listening and focussed on here and now, on my wee unit, to heal.

Now I am unsure how to guide my children. Talking to my ds6 ignites a flutter in me. More and more cannot be ignored without teaching him to ignore. I will not do that. Hopefully as he grows, I will be more and more up for it again.