Husband sent cringy email to recruiter. If you’re a recruiter would this put you off?

[Winterleaves1]

My husband is a qualified doctor but not eligible to work in the U.K. at the moment as he has exams to complete specific to the U.K.
While he’s studying for his exams I work in clinical trials and found a job that would be perfect for him. He’s Indian and has good English but doesn’t know how to word job applications so I helped him with the application. It took two hours as it was really long and I wanted to make sure it was spot on. I submitted the application for him. I have no connection with the employer at all. I just work in a similar field.
He came back to me and said the job application has an email for an informal chat or to ask any questions. He said he would email to introduce himself and let the manager know he is interested in the position.
Now I know in some countries this may be seen as proactive and increase your chances but I know from my managers opinion it’s been seen as annoying and socially awkward. It has definitely put them off and generally made them think the applicant didn’t understand British culture and wouldn’t fit in well within the team. Bit harsh but I’m just going by what their reaction has been when someone has done this.
They’ve also said the email should only be used for questions as the managers are busy and may have many applications where they are the manager and need their inbox clear. It’s also just not a ‘done thing’ here. I explained all this to him and told him it could negatively affect his chances of getting the job.
Well today I’m reading emails on our joint email account and he’s sent this email
‘Dear miss xxxxx,
i am writing to let you know I am very interested in your position and have completed the application. I think my skills and experience matches job well. Please consider my application’.
I know that this manager is married but no title was given so ‘miss’ was inappropriate. Also his grammar and English wasn’t the best in the email.

I’m really annoyed because the application was really strong and while he may not have got an interview I’d have at least felt that we’d given it our best shot. I feel this cringy email has really ruined his chance at an interview and will be viewed negatively.
If it was just this one application I could forget about it but it seems that he refuses to take my advice and I am sure he will continue sending an email to managers for all jobs he applies for moving forwards.
I know I sound really mean. I promise I’m not, just trying to help him as o know he wants to be in work.
So AIBU to think this email has affected his chances? If you are responsible for recruiting would this put you off? I’m hoping I’m overthinking.

Plus they're hugely understaffed so I don't think something minor like this will put them off recruiting a good doctor.

In principle, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with sending an email although his lacks any real substance ie a specific example of why he is a good fit for the role.

I would be more put off by a joint email address, assuming it’s obvious it’s a joint one (eg along the lines of the_smiths@… or steveandmandy@…

He needs to get the role or an interview on his own merits. You're too involved and should step back and let him handle it. You may think you're helping him but you're not. I've worked in recruitment for years and what would put me off more than a cringe email (which I'd skim and ignore) would be someone who was relying on others to help their application. You can always tell, especially when you get the candidate to interview and they clearly didn't write their own application paperwork 🤷

As a hiring manager, any applicant who contacts me directly to show interest in the role would definitely be viewed more highly. I normally have applicants ask for an informal chat, it helps set expectations on both sides. But I’m afraid the poor wording would put me off

You're over thinking it. Leave him to get on with it.

The way I’ve alsways seen it- you want to work with people who are like minded.

so if he emails them he may find someone who appreciates and encourages those type
of social interactions and then your husband is potentially working with like minded people.

he’ll be more understood and happier in his role. Yes it’s not the done thing but leave him to it

There's not a lot you can do about the email he's already sent, but if he's insisting on sending similar for future applications, perhaps you could sit down and draft one together, so at least you can ensure it's grammatically correct?

NHS recruitment is generally watertight on fairness and EDI, it's taken very seriously. I highly doubt the email is going to make a blind bit of difference either way. If the Trust/org are using TRAC properly, shortlisting for interview will be scored against the JD and will be anonymous. They wont even know which applicant sent that email. After that point, you cannot just bin an application because you've seen the names, or people who are racist for example would bin foreign looking names, that's what this system is designed to protect against. At the interview, there will be at least 2 if not 3 or more (depending on the band of the job) on the panel. For the email to hinder OP's husband, the person receiving the email would either need to be so bothered by the email that they tell the whole panel and they ALL become so bothered by it they uniformly score him lower (highly unlikely) or, 1 person who received the email might score OP lower if they were really irritated by it, but the others score him normally.

I actually think the real hindrance to OP's husband here is that if he speaks how he writes, it will probably be apparent that he didn't write the application himself. I have never personally marked someone down for not being a native English speaker and in the NHS we respect that not everyone speaks English as a first language but I'm not sure I'd be too impressed if it was really obvious someone else had written it. Not least because you'd want to gauge someone's written English in case any support is needed and you can't do that if someone else writes the application. Working in clinical trials might involve writing applications to the MHRA/HRA and those need to be in decent English. Also, I am concerned that OP has said it's important for husband's MH to get a job - writing his apps might result in a string of interviews that he is ultimately unsuccessful in, and that would surely damage his MH more than not working at all?

You aren't supposed to sell yourself in that type of initial contact!

Some terrible replies here where clearly posters don't understand.

The email he sent was awful. It was like a truncated application.

The person who is recruiting clearly welcomes questions or the contact option would not be there on the vacancy @Winterleaves1

But the reason it is there, is for an applicant to have an informal chat about the role.

It's not there for them to say they'd be right for it or anything at all like that.

It's to stop potential applicants wasting everyone's time by applying, then finding out the role is not for them.

I used to work in education and it was common place for Heads to suggest applicants spoke to someone (usually a H of D) to discuss the role, informally. It was not the time or place to tell them you were the one they wanted.

He's made a social etiquette error.

I'd be more put off by anyone who uses the term "moving forwards" 🤣🤣

Honestly your husband's email is ok.

He came back to me and said the job application has an email for an informal chat or to ask any questions

He was perfectly right to email to ask for a chat.

They say they want people to do that.

TBH I'd hate to be treated by him as a dr if his English is so poor and his grasp of Western culture including titles.

One of the most frequent complaints in the UK is that a lot of medics trained overseas are not fluent in English or don't understand the subtleties of the language.

No it's not okay at all.

The email contact is there to arrange an informal chat about the role, not to sell yourself. That's what you do in an application.

i am writing to let you know I am very interested in your position [should say 'vacancy' or 'role'] and have completed the application. I think my skills and experience matches [the] job well. Please consider my application’.

Good thing he's applied for a role in clinical trials then and not as a doctor. The 'grasp of Western culture' comment smells quite racist to me.

Me too. As have the OPs comments about her managers.
It’s depressing really when I am sure these people have had cultural sensitivity and unconscious bias training. They shouldn’t be going on about “British culture”

He thought all women were ‘Miss’.

Jesus! Where was he in the last 20-40 years?! 1950's or 60's?

As someone who has worked for HRM, having to forward mails from job applications to my boss, that one would be deleted immediately.

Sorry OP. I hope he'll be taken on soon.

I work in the NHS and my title is Dr (non-medical). I would not care one jot if I received an email obviously from someone who is not speaking native English, calling me Miss, doing something that might be considered a social boo boo to someone from the UK. Someone so sensitive to such things shouldn't be involved in recruitment in the NHS IMHO.

I thought the role was for something to do with medical trials, not as a practicing doctor? In which case, I'd let the poor grammar slide if the application was strong.

And I definitely wouldn't be put off a brief email where the candidate stresses their suitability for the job.

I say that as an employer who recognises that people have different communication styles and cultural norms.

@Winterleaves1 I wouldn't panic but the annoying bit is that he hasn't listened to you but carried on doing something you rightly think is unwise.

The 'grasp of Western culture' comment smells quite racist to me.

OP is just concerned about what will help him get a job. Whether you think it's right or not, there are some things that will help and some that will hinder.

Being informal/overfamiliar/irrelevant and slightly illiterate via email genuinely would put some employers off.

I have worked in the NHS for over 30 years and to be honest the email is fine. I welcome communication before and after an application process - it provides me with more detail about that person then what is written in a personal
statement that in some instances has not been written by the applicant at all!

That just about sums up some of what is wrong with the NHS.

Unbelievable response.

Are you for real?

Here's the thing- he's the one who will have to actually do the job. So it will be up to the recruiter as to whether he's a good fit at interview or not. I do think you need to step back from this. It makes sense you'd help him with the application but he needs to be able to take it from here and be himself. If you keep telling him how you think he should be acting you could really undermine his confidence which could affect his chances more than the email he sent.

And this is why you don't treat as gospel recruitment advice from someone who doesn't work in the sector you're applying to. If I were to apply to the civil service or a charity I would never expect that NHS recruitment norms I'm used to personally would apply, I would seek advice from someone who actually works in that sector.

Good grief- you think sound English is not important in medical trials?

Quite the opposite.

You're missing the point.

It's not JUST about the grammar, it's the whole content of the email
He was supposed to say 'I'm interested in this role and would welcome the opportunity to have an informal discussion with you about it at your convenience.'

Surely the cringiest part of the email is that it was sent from a joint email address with his wife? Who on earth shares email addresses?

In all likelihood the email was just deleted as it wasn't asking for a chat and doesn't require a response, it isn't a big deal at all and it's utterly bizarre that you're making it out to be one tbh. It doesn't matter what you think he was supposed to say. Do you even work in the NHS? Lots of us here who do have said it's not an issue.