For being annoyed I was asked to stand on a bus because of dog allergies?

[anywayhereswonderwall]

I went to visit a friend in London today and I took my dog. It's worth noting she is a mini poodle, and hypoallergenic, and well behaved. You can barely even tell she's there. I got on the bus as part of my journey. It was the middle of the day so there were a few empty seats (but not loads).

I got on and sat down, and the woman a few rows behind me said 'can you move , I have a dog allergy'. I apologised and moved a few rows forwards, the furthest forwards I could go and still get a seat.

She then shouted forwards 'not far enough, you're going have to stand at the front'.

I was confused, but did it. I spent the rest of the 35 minute journey standing right at the front of the bus while the woman was 3/4 of the way along, sitting.

I did what she said for the journey, but when I got off I felt annoyed and I'm not sure if I'm justified.

Most cafes aren’t dog friendly why don’t you just go to those? I also think you’re wrong about the disability discrimination because kicking customers out of a dog friendly café isn’t a reasonable adjustment.

Anyway my dog detects gluten so I need it with me and last time I checked my chronic health condition can count as a disability and I’m also protected under the equality act. Including for non dog friendly cafes and supermarkets if I wanted (I don’t). so I wouldn’t be leaving anywhere.

Overall, what this thread shows is that a lot of people are extremely self-centered, which doesn't surprise me because most humans are.

No, your autistic child's needs don't trump anyone else's needs @Fourteenhouses. Your attitude is quite frankly disgusting and entitled.

I am not anti-dog, but no, people's dogs don't need to be in cafés and restaurants. I know they are allowed, but why are they there? What's the point? Just leave them at home.

I have no issue with dogs on public transport, in parks, etc. Especially where I live where public transport is used a lot. Dogs have to have a ticket. They do have a legal right to be there.

To people with allergies, autistic children, people who are scared of dogs etc, it's up to YOU to manage this, not anyone else. Noone should have to leave a public space because of your child, or your allergies, or any other reason.

To the OP, why the heck did you move on the bus? Stop being so wet - you don't have to obey strangers on a bus! Just ignore people like this. It was not up to you to pander to her needs. Your dog was allowed to be there.

Also, some breeds are less allergenic, but not hypoallergenic.

Why is that ridiculous. It's just a fact.

To be fair, the cafe owner would have only taken one families income anyway in this scenario, either the family with the disabled child or the family with the dog. In an ideal world I'm sure the owner would have preferred both, but it sounds like they chose the family with the disabled child who were already sitting with their meal over the family with the dogs who had just entered.

I guess the owner has to use their discretion when there's a problem. In this case, it was a disabled child, but the owner could also say no to someone who had a more disruptive dog, i.e., barking/not under control/being aggressive towards other dogs in the cafe. Dog friendly doesn't mean "dogs in any scenario."

Wow, there really is a dog for everything! I don't mean that sarcastically, because I can see it could read that way. I'm actually impressed. I'm sometimes surprised to hear what dogs are trained for. So many things now. You must have a pretty serious gluten reaction.

I get why business owners are all ‘dog friendly’ because people who don’t like dogs will probably put up with it and so they then get the maximum amount of customers.

Personally I love animals and nature etc but I don’t get the obsession with treating dogs like humans and allowing them to share our spaces, sit on sofas and things in cafes. I find it pretty unhygienic and I hate it when someone’s ‘just being friendly’ dog slobbers on me.

I totally agree with the need for assistance dogs to go everywhere because that’s important but they are also brilliantly trained, so they are very different from most family pets.

hopefully bigger places will start zoning areas into dogs and no dogs, like some of the beaches already do. A bit like how we used to have smoking and non smoking areas of restaurants!

I ate out yesterday with 8 adults. I think they would spend a lot more than two adults and two children. I would feel sorry for the owner having to miss out on that income if the person with the support dog had bought them. They never bring their dog but they could have. I guess the cafe owners loss would have been some other cafe owners gain.

@HRTQueen

If a child has an allergy or a phobia, you should go to a dog free cafe. It works both ways. It is not OK for me to go to a dog free cafe with my dog and insist on staying there with my dog and demand anyone who doesn't like dogs leave.

I would have left if I was the dog owner, because the child was distressed and if they had already been served. Not because they had more right to be there than I did. Dog friendly spaces exist so people who own dogs can go out with their dog without bothering anyone with a phobia or allergies. It is entitled for people to come into dog friendly spaces when there are other alternatives available and demand that we leave.

More than discrimination. It's illegal to refuse entry to a guide dog. The cafe owner could be fined or prosecuted.

Do people realise any dog might be an assistance dog? I see a woman with a poodle in my local supermarket quite a bit and it’s a seizure alert dog.

there is no law requiring identification or harness or paperwork. And as I understand business owners aren’t allowed to ask why it’s an assistance dog as peoples medical issues are private.

I do have sympathy to you @Fourteenhouses but when you say things like the dog owners-in a dog friendly cafe-need to check their privilege then it does wane a bit.
I would have thought when asking others to make important adjustments for your child it would be better done with a realisation that you are asking others to do something help make your DC life easier and appreciate it as I think it would make ppl more inclined to help.

I haven’t read through all 23 pages of this thread but:

I am a guide dog owner. As such my dog is allowed everywhere.

And in my experience people with allergies fall into two groups. The ones who have allergies, who manage their allergies, and who will have a reasonable conversation if my dog enters their space to the extent it could trigger a reaction. It’s perfectly reasonable to accommodate those to the degree of moving further away from them/not letting the dog in their space, and as a rule these are reasonable people who wouldn’t be shouting demands and expectations because they, like me, are just getting on with their lives.

And then there is a sub-set of people with allergies who will demand, shout, insist, throw out emotive language, and who most definitely are not reasonable people and as such I have no inclination to accommodate them.

I was in a shop a couple of years ago and the woman standing next to me was there for about five minutes, chatting to the bloke behind the counter, making her selection etc. Then his colleague came to talk to me, I bought what I wanted and turned to leave, at which point she subjected me to a mouthful of abuse about how my dog shouldn’t be allowed in the shop, how she had such severe allergies and how she might die now. Thing is, she was stood next to me for the entire time. There’s no way on earth she couldn’t have seen my dog. If she’d said at the time that she had allergies I would have stood further away (allergies to the extent that you can’t be in the same room as a dog are extremely rare so it would have been possible for her to not be in any contact with the dog). But given she shouted, screeched and made accusations just made her look like a twat instead of a person who was genuinely struggling.

Sometimes it’s about compromise. If I was in a cafe and a child came in and was having a meltdown because my dog was lying quietly on the floor then I would have no reason to leave IMO. But I’ve been into a shop, walked into an isle and a child has clearly reacted to my dog at which point I’ve just walked out of that isle and down the next one so that dog doesn’t scare child is a perfect compromise.

Taxi’s are obliged by law to carry guide dogs. it is in fact a criminal offence to refuse them except in the instance of allergies, and if a taxi driver has an allergy they are obliged by law to carry and display an allergy exemption certificate. However I’ve had taxi drivers say they’re scared of dogs. That’s understandable, but they know when they become taxi drivers that they have to carry guide dogs, but I can compromise by putting the dog in the boot (assuming that it’s an estate or a hatchback.

As a poster said upthread, walking into a dog friendly cafe and demanding the dog leave because of your child’s phobia is unreasonable as you knew it was a dog friendly cafe to start with.

and it's inconsiderate entitled people like you who don't realise that dogs have as much right to be a part of society as you and your children.

Hilarious. Not a serious comment, obviously.

Children are human and matter. Dogs don't.

I guess in that scenario it would yes. But in the scenario of the other poster, the owner made a different choice because of the circumstances and it was easier to ask the people who had just entered the cafe to leave than the people already sat eating. Not an ideal situation all round.

But any premises that refuses to make reasonable adjustments for an autistic person is also breaking the law. I would have thought that, where the autistic person is already in a café and has received their coffee, the balance is on their side and the best the café owner could do is suggest the person with the service dog come back a bit later.

I wonder whether it would be helpful to have a scheme where cafe, restaurant, pub owners have a specific sign on the door if they welcome dogs and other animals? That way those of us who they make ill can take our business elsewhere? It's actually quite hard to know where you might suddenly find a dog nowadays. Maybe there could be a specific place on the bus where dogs can sit on the floor. Allergies are disabling for some and the stories about 'i took an antihistamine and got on with it' are not representative of those with more severe allergies. Its hard to plan when they can pop up everywhere.

We we shall have to agree to disagree

I do not believe dogs who are just with their owners because the owner wants them to be trump a child or adult with disabilities when the child is already in said cafe

i would hope most people are more empathic in rl

I’m afraid they do. You’re just bitter about that.

Yeah, projectile vomiting, staggering about like being drunk, passing out and spending the next three days in bed semi conscious. Even from cross contamination….. and the dog will detect even that.

All sentiment beings matter. Not to say we manage them the same obviously, but every being has feelings and deserves care and to be treated well.

@HRTQueen

Like I said, I would have left if they had already been served, but the matter still stands that if you have allergies or a phobia, you should check if a cafe is dog free.

It's illegal to refuse entry to a guide dog. If the person wanted to come in they are entitled to enter. The cafe owner could be fined or prosecuted even for suggesting they come back later.

I read an article a while ago about dogs that detect gluten. Dogs really are bloody amazing!

I wouldn't have moved a second time tbh. I take my dog on the train fairly often for the 5 minute journey to work. I try to stand in the little foyer part of the train so his fur isn't getting onto the seats and if I get the impression someone is wary of him I will move away from them. If you're allergic to dogs, then take an anthistamine before leaving the house. Blanket banning dogs from public transport is unrealistic. It's like demanding that trees and grass be removed from existence just because some people have hayfever. I'm sure if the woman was deathly allergic to dogs she'd be entitled to claim travel benefits to allow her to get taxis or a motobility car.

If someone tried dictate I ban dogs from coming into my shop I'd stand my ground. Of course I'd ask the dog owner to keep a respectful distance from the other customer, but other than that I don't care to get into it to be honest. Everyone thinks their needs trump someone elses, despite how nice of a person they think they are and how much they deny they think this way. One thing you learn running an independent small business is that you'll never please everyone all the time so why even bother trying.

The term here though is resaonable adjustment.

It’s reasonable to seat the service dog user in a different part of the cafe so that the child is not in close proximity to it.

It is not reasonable to expect the person with the phobia/allergy to insist the dog not be allowed in the cafe at all and to refuse the service dog.