To not want DD being friends with this girl (5 year old who seems to be a bully)

[WhoSaidWhat123]

I never want to be the mother who wants to tell my children what to do because I’ve grown up with a very controlling Mum, however this girl has had many complaints off other Mum’s in school for bullying their child. For example pushing 1 girl around on many occasions, telling everyone not to play with another girl and told the girls to run away from her if she came to them, hit another girl on the head with a ruler because she wasn’t sharing, calling another girl fat (when she certainly isn’t fat).

DD has a strange friendship with her. DD is friends with her but sometimes she doesn’t want to do anything with her because she has been mean to DD. For example DD has had sand thrown in her eyes when DD didn’t want to do what she wants to do (this was in nursery) which stopped DD wanting to go to nursery for a while. She has been telling DD what to do, shouting at her, not letting her play with anyone else but her, telling DD she can’t play as Elsa because her hair is brown not blonde like hers, again there was a time DD was crying on Sunday’s not wanting to go to school. I’ve obviously spoken to school about it and they’ve had a word many times with the group and the girl. But DD seems to still be friends with this girl and I hate it to be honest because I worry that DD will be bullied by this girl if she goes against her, or will be forced to do something naughty, or may become a bully herself?

I’ve been told by another Mum at the school that their girl told them that my DD tries to tell the other girl she doesn’t want to play with her when the other girl tried to take DD away from others, and this other mum’s girl told the mean one that my DD doesn’t want to play with her and now this girl is being bullied daily by the mean one and it’s been going on for 2 months now and the mum has had to take her girl out and into another school because the girl was crying daily not wanting to go in.

Sorry I know the post is long. I’m just so worried as a mother thinking how is this going to resolve itself? It’s a small school and there are only 8 girls in the class and the other girls have made a tight group and won’t do anything with the other group (mean girl and my DD and 2 others), because they’ve been pushed by the mean one. So do I just wait it out and see what happens, or do I have a word with DD the next time she is the one that’s been targeted by the mean one and tell her to maybe forget about her as a friend?!

Reading the way you speak about this girl I almost forgot it was a 5 year old child.

She’s 5. She’s not a bully.

All behaviour is communication.

5 year old aren't bullies, they're growing up, learning, having big feelings, struggling with emotions etc. Have the school been approached? Are her parents aware?

This does seem an over reaction to a reception aged child Op. Its impossible for school to stop children interacting. Could you invite her over for a playdate to try and help your daughter develop better coping skills.

Some of this is just natural kid stuff...your daughter needs to learn as part of growing up how to say no or yes to playtime games etc

She’s not a bully at 5. But she is definitely displaying nasty and undesirable behaviours but she needs to be guided away from.

I would potentially discuss with the school. Do not frame it as bullying, just say you are a bit concerned and think she needs some guidance/coaching/support around her behaviour as it is upsetting your daughter (don’t speak for other parents).

Sure, and the other girl’s parents need to deal with that.

OP’s priority is her own daughter

I think young children can display bullying behaviour and its worrying that it's getting to the stage of other children saying they don't want to go into school etc. Yes there is probably a good reason for it at that age, but labelling or trying to find out why will be futile.

I think in terms of what you can do about it, there are only a few options.

Arrange playdates or park trips etc with other friends, get your child to join hobby groups etc so they have friends outside the intense 8 girls in their class.

Talk to your daughter about healthy friendships and what she thinks about how this girl is acting. Give her a few phrases she can use when she needs to get away from this girl etc

Talk to the teachers. Not in an accusing way about the other girl but about the effect on your daughter abs how school can help with helping your daughter through this and what they can do to help put some distance between them and build other friendships etc

My DD had similar at that age and we moved schools when she was 9 because the pattern continued. The fact that the class is so small is what would concern me. This tiny and potentially toxic little group will be your DD’s social circle for the next 10 years unless you consider your options.

There’s one of these girls in my DD’s class - I’m absolutely certain it’s because she see this behaviour at home!

I would just keep reminding her how she should be treated & gently encourage her to make new friends/tell the teacher.

Firstly, you need to stop talking to other parents about this girl. If you have issues with how she and your dd interact, speak to the school only.

Secondly, all you should be doing, in terms of the friendship with your own dd, is remind dd all the time that she can play with whoever she likes, and that she has your permission to say no politely if anyone asks her to play and she doesn't want to. She can even learn to say "I'm not playing with you until you choose to be a nicer friend" or something of that like.

And lastly, she is 5. You've got another 13 years of this shit. Stop getting involved other than the two points above. It's going to save you a lot of stress. Kids fall in and out of friendships all the time. Focus your energies on building dds confidence so she learns she has a right to say no, and that she knows not everyone is going to be the perfect friend.

Apologies. Bully might be a strong word. Normally I’ve used the word mean but another Mum had previously called her a bully (to the teacher and the girl’s Mum, not me).

Yes the parents are aware of how she is, the teacher have reported some of the behaviour mentioned above previously, and this has been laughed off or downplayed by them with them saying “oh well what can we do.” I know this because I live close to the parents and DD and I have spent time with them out of school. So I have arranged play dates previously where they have been to ours and we have been to theirs.

Indeed.

@Famzonhol this is what I’m worried about. The group being so little and it’s either be in the group that has a “mean girl”, or be in the group that’s being pushed around by the other group, or be on your own.

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

I’ve not been talking with the other mother’s. It’s always been them who have approached me, or another mother who I am close with (who I do confide with her since she has done the same with me about her DD and issues they’re having).

Last year we went on a few playdate’s with the other mother’s, individually not as a group, and they were informing me of what their daughter’s had said of the other girl. To which I always said to them, knowing my DD is in that group, if my DD was ever mean to their daughter to let me know because I don’t agree with that behaviour and I will always correct it, but I’ve always been reassured my DD isn’t doing anything wrong.

Good advice though, thank you. I’m always trying to boost DD’s confidence by telling her that she has lots of other friend’s and that she’s always being invited to all the parties, even the boys’ where not all the girls are always invited, so she needs to remember that and not worry about falling out with anyone.

I wouldn't discuss with other parents, but with the class teacher directly and also rephrase your language when describing this other girl.

I’m always trying to boost DD’s confidence by telling her that she has lots of other friend’s and that she’s always being invited to all the parties, even the boys’ where not all the girls are always invited
Why are you doing that??

We also have a similar predicament with two girls DD was at nursery with. Given that it is a small friendship pool, would moving your DD also be an option? I would also stop encouraging the friendship and cease play dates. Are there other children your DD would like to invite over to play? This may support with developing other friendships.

A bully at 5 will be a bully all her life. They’re everywhere

@ReadersD1gest because it seems as though DD is scared of falling out with this girl so I’m trying to remind her that she has other friends and how lucky she is that she gets invited to all the parties so has nothing to worry about if someone falls out with her.

@florenceandthemutt I have considered it. But DD is scared about changing schools, however, if this carries on and DD is coming home from school saying she’s being picked on, hurt or said mean things about, and it continues then I will definitely change schools then. Girls confidence shouldn’t be ruined at such a young age IMO because it’ll take a lot to get back.

I agree that it doesn't sound like you're writing about a five year old.

The other girl clearly has some behaviour issues and sounds like she struggles a bit socially. It can't be nice to be on the receiving end of the behaviours, but I also don't think it's very nice to be this little girl at the moment and adults could give her more grace. It seems particularly sad that so many mums spend so much time talking about her, and that you're holding nursery school behaviours against her.

I agree that what you can do is give your daughter tools to challenge unkind behaviours, whomever she sees them from, and confidence in her own sense of right and wrong. Role playing situations could give her phrases she could use. Inviting this girl and perhaps another to your home and modelling good behaviour could also help.

I have a child this age and I have seen kids act in a way that I’d describe as bullying, however young they are. In the two cases I had first-hand experience of the apple hadn’t fallen far from the tree.

speak to the school. Describe the situation objectively, including the impact on your daughter.

Teach her (easier said than done I know) that someone who leaves out, teases, throws, hurts etc isn’t our friend, and that when that behaviour happens she a) tells a teacher and b) finds someone else to play with.

@TheWayTheLightFalls

I just worry that, if someone so young is behaving this way at this age, it can only get worse? But I surely hope not. Especially if DD is still going to be friends and/or on the receiving end of the mean words/acts.

I spoke to the teacher a month ago because DD was also crying not wanting to go to school. The teacher told me she was aware and had a word with the girls, and that she was hoping to sort it without having to inform us parents, however obviously it got out of hand and caused a few of the girls (DD being one), being upset because of the other girl’s behaviour.

@BusMumsHoliday I know the family very well, they are “keep up with the joneses” type people and look down on those who don’t “fit in”, the girl is an only child also and gets pretty much everything she wants and they’ve always down played and laughed off the teacher’s reports on the girl’s behaviour so I don’t know if this is the cause of the behavioural issue or whether it is something else. I just worry that she doesn’t know right from wrong and carries on behaving the way she does which is obviously going to have an effect on the other girls who are being picked on, my DD included.

It can feel like bullying, but in a five year old it's more about a desire to be in charge, if she's an only who is used to getting her own way it may just be that she's not used to/confident at interacting with kids and isn't sure how to express herself adequately without being dominating.

I'd definitely speak to the teacher. And teach your child that she can be everyone's friend, but she doesn't have to play with people who are unkind to her, that she won't get told.off for asserting her own boundaries and being truthful about it "I am going to play with someone else because you are being unkind to me".