Believing in ghosts

[StupidFaces]

I used to, now I think it’s ridiculous. People have been trying to prove the existence of ghosts for over 150 years and yet not one scrap of credible evidence to suggest they exist. I wish they did, I’d love it to be real but it just doesn’t make sense for them to exist does it?

Surely if ghosts were real, abattoirs would be haunted to fuck by the ghosts of dead cows? How come nobody ever sees a ghost dressed in trackies and Nike trainers? Why are they only ever dressed in Victorian/medieval clothes etc?

Do people think ghosts of fish haunt the ocean?

For those that do believe … what do you think about the above scenarios?

For those that done believe … would you be happy to spend a night alone in a supposedly haunted castle?

@GarlicGrace ’Spastic’ was used to describe physical disability, but it became an insult, so was dropped by charities and health professionals.

Delusional is being used in a similar way- a medical term used as an insult.

And you think it’s the recipients of this who have a poor opinion of mental disorders? 🤦‍♀️

Can you point me to any footage or photographs at all of ghosts or spirits that are 'unexplained'?

I'm not aware of a single ghost photo or video over the years that has ever been released that hasn't been shown to have a normal explanation.

The ancient Greeks knew the earth was round but critically they proved it categorically by experiment before they claimed it to be so.

The ancient Greeks knew the earth was round but critically they proved it categorically by experiment before they claimed it to be so

What a load of utter tosh. It was a concept first. A theory. They didn’t know, they guessed based on The science came later.

I'm not aware of a single ghost photo or video over the years that has ever been released that hasn't been shown to have a normal explanation

Of course you wouldn’t, why would you when you have no interest in the subject? If you were even slightly interested you’d very easily find them for yourself.

That post didn’t read correctly as part of my sentence was missing but I really can’t be arsed to correct it now.

Goodnight all.

It was suspected earlier but Erastothenes proved it 2200 years ago by measuring shadows in Egypt at the same time in different locations. You can look it up on Google fgs. 🙄

I am interested actually, not sure why you think that I wouldn't be. There aren't any ghost photographs or videos that don't have completely reasonable explanations though. Please feel free to prove me wrong though...

I was listening to a programme on radio 4 the other day called ‘All In The Mind’ and there was a section on something called Third Man Syndrome. I can’t add a link but if you Google, I think this sounds a really feasible explanation for many ghost sightings and hearing someone calling your name. I’d never heard of this till now and it’s fascinating.

For me it sounds a rational explanation as to why we see and hear recently dead friends, family, pets or feel an unseen presence. If it’s a response to extreme stress and only seems to happen in the worst circumstances, then bereavement is right up there as a possible trigger.

Boring!!! I was rather enjoying the ghost stories.

😂😂😂 100% with you!

I love that, @MedievalMadness, and the related experimental work with 'split brain syndrome', examining people who've had the halves of their brain surgically separated (to treat extreme epilepsy). The theory of bicameral mentality proposes that ancient peoples didn't "consciously think" as we do, perceiving messages from their right brain as direct communication from the gods.

I'm not sure that theory holds 100% true, but it does make a lot of sense. Nowadays, we use different words to describe such things - instinct, gut feeling, spidey sense, having "the muse", being in flow - and, if we don't pray, we meditate, journal or get in touch with nature to achieve the same things.

So-called Third Man Factor was put forward in relation to extreme circumstances, but there are zillions of examples both life-threatening and mundane. A few people in the King's Cross fire "heard" or "knew" they should head further down, ignoring the official advice to go up towards ground level.

They tried to get others to follow them; those who did, survived. This is easy to explain from a distance - most of us know fire travels upwards, even if we've never actually discussed it, and regular commuters would have noted the staff doors & service tunnels, even if they'd never consciously noticed them. But in the emergency, those people "just knew" and, crucially, paid attention to what they knew.

It's what Gavin de Becker talks about in The Gift Of Fear.

I've had what I'd describe as massive posters appearing in my mind, telling me to take some urgent course of action, and I do "sense" various deceased relatives at times when their feedback would be welcome - and not (cheers, Dad, stay dead ... ) Also, I write. I never believe it's going to happen but, once I've started, my "writing voice" kicks in and comes up with stuff I hadn't deliberately thought about for one moment. Some people might consider that a spirit, and it is in a way - all coming from my own 1300 grams of squishy head organ, though.

It's a pity that fans of the supernatural here have been so angered by alternative explanations! I love ghost tales. My interpretation might be different from theirs, but why can't we explore the possibilities?

Correction, You THINK ghosts are real. I don’t .

We have lots of odd things, like unexplained noises, things falling, etc. I call it the friendly local poltergeist. All can be explained by, 'it must have been precariously balanced and finally fell for no reason', 'the bang from the bathroom must have been a door or something fell even though nothing to see', etc. I don't find it at all scary, but we do look at each other sometimes and think what was that this time. I don't know if it happens more in our house than other people's but it is quite a regular thing.

GarlicGrace Thanks for this. It’s fascinating. There’s so much to learn about the brain. I absolutely love paranormal stories and films like Contact. Im hoping that sentient alien life is found in my lifetime.

gegs73 and FlyingSparks. I don’t think this theory explains lots of paranormal events though.

Bees can see ultraviolet light - most humans can't. It doesn't mean that the bees are wrong, or that the UV light doesn't affect everyone.

Same with ghosts I reckon. Some of us see them, some don't. And they are like those Magic Eye pictures - once you've seen one, you are tuned into how to do it, whether you know it or not.

Of course, it's currently not yet provable - but science is improving all the time. The main problem is actually how the scientific community refuses to accept research findings that challenge the mainstream, and denigrate the researchers who publish it, even if they have a Nobel Prize. So it stifles scientific progress in certain areas.

Meantime people still believe in SSRIs in the face of all the evidence.

I've been thinking of this overnight, especially the matter of gaining evidence.

Might be unrelated and I'm sure some clever people will have a ready answer, but are atmospheres also something that it's impossible to catch evidence of.

Some of get a feeling of an atmosphere when we entering a room where people have had an argument or something good or bad has just happened. Not everyone feels it, but some people feel it very keenly. Perhaps it's body language, perhaps it's energy, but it is something intangible and perhaps hard to explain.

There is no way of capturing that atmosphere on camera, but it doesn't mean it's not there.

For those enjoying the 'ghost' stories, I have another.

A week before Christmas I was walking home from a concert. It was dark and I was in a part of town full of Georgian crescents and terraces.

Walking up a side street I passed two ladies chatting outside a pub, Christmas atmosphere inside and full of drinkers. At the end of the side street is a T junction onto a busier road. A young man with a back pack crossed the side road at the T junction. Following a short distance behind him was a woman. She was wearing what I can only describe as Victorian riding dress, floor length black taffeta gown with a fitted black coat over and a 'top hat' style thing with a veil. She passed a few feet in front of me and walked on to a set of steps up to a terrace. She picked up the front of her skirt and climbed the steps, the back of her dress trailing up the steps behind her. She looked so amazing in period costume on the old steps under a period street lamp that I wanted to take her photo. I wasn't brave enough to ask. Seeing her skirt trailing up the steps was so incredible that I plucked up courage to run on to the next set of steps up to the terrace...about 20 metres on. I thought I'd ask if I could take a photo under the light. I suppose a minute, not much more passed before I got to the top of the steps.

I assumed she'd been to a fancy dress party or some kind of Victorian carol evening. I was worried she'd think I was odd about the photo but it was such a good opportunity and I have an Instagram page about the local area so it would be amazing for that.

Anyway, I got to the top of the steps. And she wasn't there.

What legitimate research around ghosts is being conducted that the mainstream scientific community is 'refusing to accept'?

Some of get a feeling of an atmosphere when we entering a room where people have had an argument or something good or bad has just happened. Not everyone feels it, but some people feel it very keenly. Perhaps it's body language, perhaps it's energy, but it is something intangible and perhaps hard to explain.

There is no way of capturing that atmosphere on camera, but it doesn't mean it's not there.

My late DM, my DB and me all feel ‘atmospheres’ (whatever they are) very strongly. It’s an immediate reaction to a place as soon as I go into a building, room etc and really powerful. The saying ‘You could cut the atmosphere with a knife’ describes it exactly. My DMs most memorable one was when we went for a picnic and sat by a lovely bridge. DM said she wanted to have it somewhere else and we packed up and moved. It turned out that the bridge had collapsed during initial construction, killing a lot of the builders. She said an unbearable heaviness and sadness. Whenever I visit York I feel depressed and miserable despite loving everything about the city in theory - all the history, architecture, picturesque streets, fab shops and places to eat. I only go if I have to despite it being nearby. I’d love to know why we sense these things,

I had only had this once. We were travelling overseas and had pre-booked a hotel in the US. It looked lovely from the photos, a small place, very boutique. We arrived, checked in, went to the room and something felt off, I just felt incredibly sad and uncomfortable. I couldn't have slept in there, being in there in the daytime was bad enough.

I told by OH sorry I couldn't stay there and we had to leave. He thought I was having a moment and thought it all very odd.

I was curious after leaving, and did some research. A murder had taken place in that room.

I'm not even a believer, but physical things like walls, floors, ceilings, are made of materials, and materials absorb.

@BunBungalowLil I only wanted to quote your last paragraph but my phone won't let me.

I recommended Richard Wiseman's book Paranormality earlier on the thread. I highly recommend it. Fascinating and an easy read. He debunks various "psychic" and "paranormal" phenomena including ghosts.

One section describes some researchers creating a fake history for a building and describes how local stories grew up around the building and people were genuinely convinced that they had experienced something strange and otherworldly.

I strongly believe that most woo can already be explained by science and the rest could be explained with more scientific knowledge and/or evidence.

As you found out next day, the memory of the passing thought would still be fresh. It's a strange co-incidence so your memory has stored it.

We don't have the capacity to remember every thought, everything we say, everything that happens to us.

There will have been countless times when you have thought of this relative but your subconscious did not recognise that thought as being important enough to retain in the long term memory.

Hence thinking of them the night that they died stands out and seems weird.

I'm not an expert on logical fallacies so I'm not sure which one this is. Could be the availability fallacy.

Regards the building and what a pp has said about atmospheres.

I would not say I believe in ghosts nor have seen one.

However, because people have mentioned buildings it’s reminded me of a situation years ago. A friend (not a very close one, we knew her from a hobby we did) bought a new house and invited us to see it. I knew she had a boyfriend C but didn’t know him or much about their relationship but they seemed happy and had been together about 10 years.

Anyhow, another friend and I went round to the house after they moved in. It was a bit of a doer/upper. I have never felt such negative energy before when entering that house. It was so oppressive I felt I couldn’t breathe. It was a long time ago but I can still remember very clearly feeling freaked out and frightened looking round. It was like it was shrouded in black misery.

I remember suggesting we look at the garden so I could get outside. We made the right noises, said it was a great renovation project and left. When in the car my friend who had viewed it with me said she felt the same inside it.

The hobby thing dissipated and I didn’t see this friend for many years. We liked posts on FB type of thing but that was it.

Out of the blue about 5 years ago she got in touch and said could we meet for a walk:coffee. I met her and without outlining all the goings on whilst they successfully renovated the house most of the things in her life went to pieces. The boyfriend had affairs, got into some really dodgy stuff (porn related) and they split up, she lost her job.. The boyfriend always blamed the house, she had it exorcised - now I would never in a million years think she was in anyway woo or believing of that stuff. Nor were we. Some of the things she told me about what went on would make your hair stand up. I visited the house again whilst she was in the throes of selling it and whilst it was bright and renovated it still felt off.

I’m happy to say she’s now happily married to someone else, lives miles away and it’s all behind her. When we went on the walk she told me all about the house without me telling her previously what I had felt about it. I would love for someone to rationally explain what the feeling was.

She has since found out some history about it and there were some incredibly unpleasant things that happened there. But she didn’t find this out until after she sold it.

@ColonelDax Go do your own googling. But be sure to look at water memory in particular, as evidence for the shutting down of particular areas of research. You can even exclude all except scientific papers.

Rupert Sheldrake and the like have been doing such research for ages, and are derided for no real reason, whereas you can throw out a paper on antidepressants and all's good.

Yet how many peple know about ratpark? You aren't depressed and addicted because of you - it's society. But no, let's push meds.

And if you believe in SSRIs then you should believe in ghosts. There's less evidence against ghosts.

Weird random post.

I don't believe in ghosts. Though they are more likely to exist than benefits of Brexit.

Go do your own googling

Love it when people make claims then when challenged to provide evidence tell you to look for it yourself. That's really not how it works. 🙄

Water memory

Cool cool cool. 😂