Page 8 | Something needs to be done about unleashed pitbulls/ XL bullys

TheyareEverywhere · 2023-04-23T08:03:35+00:00

We've just moved to a new area which seemed nice and a good place to raise the kids. After living here for just a week I've had two encounters with one of those big, bulky pitbull / XL bully type dogs off lead with the type of owner you'd expect to have them - young, unable to control them, the sort who use the dog as a penis extention to intimidate people and train the dogs to latch onto things at the park. DP got chatting to a man at the shop and apparently they belong to drug dealers from the other block down the road. Lovely. I'm scared of those dogs and won't pretend I'm not. I know what they can, and do, do to people / kids. My DD is equally as scared of them after having one growl and bark at her at the park. Surely something should be done about people like this, fines for having them off lead on public streets? I don't know. All I know is they're frightening and shit to live amongst 😔 AIB unreasonable?

TheyAreMyBhunasPete · 23/04/2023 14:17

DdraigGoch · 23/04/2023 14:12

A PP is right. Some of the arguments on here are directly equivalent to the arguments used by the NRA in America:

"You can't ban everything dangerous"
No reason we can't start with this

"Criminals won't obey the law"
Why do we bother having laws against murder and rape? We could just abolish all laws and let people do whatever they want - at least no laws would be broken, right?

"X doesn't kill people, people with X kill people"
Well on the basis that we can't really outlaw humanity (though putting down drug dealers does have its attractions), we should create laws that prevent people being able to own X.

Very well put

StopStartStop · 23/04/2023 14:18

OP, you are absolutely right.

Thesharkradar · 23/04/2023 14:19

Laurama91 · 23/04/2023 14:14

I get how you feel. I used to work in a boarding kennels who had a contract with police and social services. There was a dog who had been taken from his owner because he had been reported to be a pit bull. He was lovely but one day he managed to get hold of a rabbit on a walk. He would not let it go. I wouldn't want to imagine what it would have been if this was a person he grabbed hold of.

I love dogs but ive never understood the no bad dog just bad owners. It's not that the dog is evil, it's the damage they can do. They could be ill and snap you never know

Of course the dog isn't evil any more than a lion or a crocodile is evil
animals do not have the capacity to make moral choices, they cannot choose between good or bad
The dog is a large powerful predator, its just doing what large powerful predators do i.e killing things.

Cocosmos · 23/04/2023 14:20

It's a shame common sense can't just be used. I think it's fairly fucking obvious what types of dogs we all want rid of so it should be fairly simple to recognise them, round them up and destroy them. But no, of course we have to make it more complicated because Dylan claims his hideous xl bully is a St Bernard and we have to believe him 😅

stbrandonsboat · 23/04/2023 14:23

Cocosmos · 23/04/2023 14:20

It's a shame common sense can't just be used. I think it's fairly fucking obvious what types of dogs we all want rid of so it should be fairly simple to recognise them, round them up and destroy them. But no, of course we have to make it more complicated because Dylan claims his hideous xl bully is a St Bernard and we have to believe him 😅

The XLBully might identify as a St Bernard though 🤔🫣😂

ThinkTheresBeenAGlitch · 23/04/2023 14:26

Restforabit · 23/04/2023 13:42

So from 1980 onwards.

1980-1989. Alsatians (7 in one attack, how awful ) Jack Russell, Rottweilers (2 of them.)

1990-1999. Alsatian, Bull terrier of some description, another bull terrier, Rottweilers (3)

2000-2009. Doberman, SBT, American bulldog, Rottweilers (2), American pit bull terrier, Rottweiler, Rottweiler, SBT and a Jack Russell (one fatality ) Alsatians (2) Pit bull terrier.

2010-2019. American bulldog, Neapolitan mastiff, pit bull terrier, Bordeaux bulldogs (2) one American bulldog, one mongrel (one attack and fatality, not four) Jack Russell cross, Bullmastiffs (2) SBT (2), bull mastiff x presa canario, bulldog type, pit bull terrier (2), pit bull terrier, Alaskan Malamute, Alsatian/German shepherd (police dog), SBT, pit bull terrier, American bulldog, Lakeland terrier X, bull breed, SBT x pit bull, SBT x bull terrier, American bulldog, SBT, German shepherd, SBT, SBT (2), Bulldog X, unknown, American bulldog.

2020-present. SBT mastiff X, chow chow X german shepherd, SBT X, American bulldogs (2), American Bully XL, American Bully XL, British bulldogs (3), husky, American Bully XL, American Bully XL, American Bully XL, Rottweiler, Cane Corso, American Bully XL, American Bully XL, American bulldogs, American bully XL X cane corso, unknown breed (8, one attack) American bulldog.

So we have:

11 Alsatians/German shepherds
10 Rottweilers
2 Jack Russells and one X JR
9 SBTs and 4 SBTs X
9 American bulldogs
4 ‘bull breed’ and two bull breed X
7 pit bull terrier and 2 pit bull X
7 American Bully XL and one American Bully XL X
3 British bulldogs
2 Bordeaux bulldogs
1 Cane Corso and one cane corso X
1 Lakeland terrier X
1 Neapolitan mastiff
1 mastiff X
1 chow chow X
1 husky
1 mongrel
8 unknown breed (in one attack.)

So when you look at number of dogs rather than number of attacks, and group them this way:

Bull breeds (SBT, pit bull, American Bully, all bulldogs, all bull breeds) we have 48

Then Alsatians / German Shepherds account for 11. That’s slightly skewed as seven attacked one poor child in the early 80s and obviously pushed the total up considerably.

10 Rottweilers

2 mastiffs, although there’s one crossed in the bull breeds above.

Two Jack Russells and one JRT X

One Lakeland X with a bull breed.

I honestly don’t know why people keep saying ‘but any dog can be dangerous.’ I think what they mean is that any dog can BITE, which is obviously true. But look at that. That isn’t a skewed list from the last couple of years. In the last FORTY THREE years, in this country there have been NO fatalities involving retrievers or Labradors, or spaniels, or poodles, or greyhounds or even the much hated cockapoos. No mention of collies or Pomeranians or basset hounds or Chinese crested.

I know there are lovely examples of the above breeds. And I know some of the breeds thought of as being a ‘nice’ family pet aren’t always: I knew an awful retriever. But when we are talking about fatalities, about grown men killed and unable to fight back - yes, sorry, it is the breed

No one can argue with these statistics. And the bully apologists on here would change their mind very quickly if it was them and their toddler living next door to an animal like that. People pointing out that cars kill - yes, and we have to be licensed and insured to drive them. Criminals might ignore that, but when they're caught they're punished. Imagine if we said oh let's scrap driving licences because some people will drive anyway? We need control over breeding, xl bullies adding to the ban list along with whatever monster gets bred next, crippling fines and sentences for people owning banned breeds or whose dogs attack people. Because it's really clear that badly trained cockerpoos or aggressive labradors aren't behind the rapidly escalating fatalities from dog attacks and people who live where these dogs are being bred and kept deserve to be able to go in their gardens and streets and parks without danger of being mauled to death by these things.

Thesharkradar · 23/04/2023 14:36

I note that in the latest fatality the victim is an adult man, from memory it's usually women and children who are killed. Perhaps something will be done now that men are also under threat?

stbrandonsboat · 23/04/2023 14:45

Thesharkradar · 23/04/2023 14:36

I note that in the latest fatality the victim is an adult man, from memory it's usually women and children who are killed. Perhaps something will be done now that men are also under threat?

I think it'll take for a famous person, politician's kid or a rich person to be attacked before something is done. Someone posted this upthread. Ordinary people are dispensable.

Can't one bite Boris Johnson's backside when he's out jogging or mess Rickie Sunak's suit up?

Divorcedalongtime · 23/04/2023 14:49

@Bloopsie agree totally

Whatabouteverything · 23/04/2023 14:56

StylishM · 23/04/2023 09:18

I would have them all euthanised and banned. Absolutely nobody needs a dog of this nature & there are no positive breed traits which can't be found in other dogs. Staffies are muscly dogs but are smaller so less likely to kill - but all bull breeds have me crossing the road with my DC

Wholeheartedly agree

OllytheCollie · 23/04/2023 15:02

CD people stop using the Wikipedia list.

There is no requirement to centrally report inquests in England so they are relying on press reports of inquests. It's a terrible source of data on homicides speaking as someone who researches homicides for a living.

It's only been a legal requirement to include dog involvement in a fatal attack as a cause of death on a death certificate since 2009. Death certificates are a good source of data as they have to be recorded in all cases. But only the data from 2009 is any use, prior to that if someone was attacked by a dog and then had a cardiac arrest a Dr CD record just the cardiac arrest.

There's definitely been a sudden rise in attacks in the last three years but there is no point comparing this with data from the 1980s. We do not have complete data from them.

TheyareEverywhere · 23/04/2023 15:04

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Restforabit · 23/04/2023 15:05

That’s fair enough @OllytheCollie (what does CD mean, though?) but I stand by the main point of that post, which is that there are no recorded fatal attacks by any breeds outside of the ones listed.

Suzi888 · 23/04/2023 15:13

“Its cruel, I know it is, but when it boils down to the safety of the public (especially a 3yo) I'd be thinking "fuck those dogs" and good riddance to them.” Let’s hope the crotch goblin doesn’t snatch a sausage eh? Or Gladys’s poodle mix. I don’t think you should encourage poisoning an animal OP.

AnalLysis · 23/04/2023 15:14

Perhaps it’s time to have a ban on dogs kept as pets over a certain size. You wouldn’t (or shouldn’t) have livestock without a field, so why have a large dog in a family home. This would be much easier to police than trying to ban (and therefore identify) certain breeds. The temperament of the dogs may vary by breed but surely skull/jaw size is what makes then lethal rather than damaging if they do turn on someone. If that means people can no longer keep st Bernard’s without having actual ‘employment’ for it then so be it. Allow existing large dogs with clean records to live out their lives, and then small dogs only in homes. It’s a shame because plenty of large dogs are harmless but as pp have said, ban one type and the local idiots will just find another.

AlwaysGinPlease · 23/04/2023 15:17

Suzi888 · 23/04/2023 15:13

“Its cruel, I know it is, but when it boils down to the safety of the public (especially a 3yo) I'd be thinking "fuck those dogs" and good riddance to them.” Let’s hope the crotch goblin doesn’t snatch a sausage eh? Or Gladys’s poodle mix. I don’t think you should encourage poisoning an animal OP.

This. It's disgusting. Poisoning animals ffs. Reported

Original poster

TheyareEverywhere · 23/04/2023 15:17

Laughloveloneliness · 23/04/2023 13:10

Will also add, she is walked regularly with other dogs. We meet a group of people with a range of dogs but they were wary when we first stated joining them and I dont blame them one bit. She has won them over though. They take a lot of work and tend to be bought by people who just want them as a status symbol or to breed 😔 they do not put in the work. Would never buy one and our next dog is going to be a greyhound!

Can I see her? She sounds very sweet @Laughloveloneliness

OP posts:

skitt · 23/04/2023 15:25

AlwaysGinPlease · 23/04/2023 12:59

Oh look ANOTHER anti dog thread 🙄😴

Frothers are frothing!

Nonsense. It's not an anti dog thread. It's an anti dangerous dogs whose owners have no control thread.

I own a dachshund- first small dog I've ever had and first aggressive dog I've ever owned. Had him castrated and muzzled for a year, even on the lead, until the castration kicked in. The difference between a unpredictable terrier and an unpredictable XLB is around 10 stone...

monsteramunch · 23/04/2023 15:35

Suzi888 · 23/04/2023 14:08

@monsteramunch lots of people on this thread say ban them. @TheyAreMyBhunasPete
Because breeds like the Boerbel can and do kill.

The only reason you probably don’t see it in the U.K. is because there are far less. There aren’t many breeders for a start- the dogs are expensive just as the xl bully used to be until we came along and changed that.

Our local rescue is full of bully breeds- they wouldn’t rehome them if they were a bite risk. These dogs are handled, to within an inch of their lives. I maintain, this is a human issue. We created it. Now we want ti destroy it because it’s easier. We won’t address the problem, won’t learn from it, we’ll just nuke it. Until next time.

”I think we should ban certain breeds and have far more stringent punishment for breeders and owners of those breeds who put people at risk.” I agree, there should be a universal ban on breeding any dog or cat full stop, too many are in shelters. Solve the problem.

I agree owners should be punished, but I think it’s probably I workable in reality.

Yes I know lots of people have said to ban them. My point was that you implied people have said to just ban them and sort of hope for the best without tackling the issues behind us. You kept saying that another breed would just become the issue so what's the point in banning this one.

When in fact people want the breed in question banned and for there to be serious legal consequences and sentencing for the humans exacerbating the issue and believe the knock on effect of that would help the wider issue of dangerous dogs.

There's no simple quick win but that doesn't mean we should just shrug our shoulders and say well we caused the problem, not the dogs. Everyone knows we caused the problem. That doesn't change the fact it needs to be tackled in a number of ways.

ElmTree22 · 23/04/2023 15:47

@TheyareEverywhere
Honestly, I know I'll be flamed for this, but I would be contemplating what I could put in some sausages to get rid of them once and for all.

This is absolutely vile!
Us humans are the ones to blame! WE created them, WE bred these animals. And what, now they don't suit us we should subject them to a fucking torturous death. You're an awful person to even suggest it.

Us humans are the problem, we are the common denominator here! God, what gives us the right to decide how to manipulate the animal kingdom, animals aren't our commodities.

OllytheCollie · 23/04/2023 15:58

@Restforabit sorry CD is just my phone nagging up could!

I think we can say with some confidence that fatalities since 2009 are mostly bull breeds + cane Corso, presa canario with a couple of tragic deaths involving terriers and babies.

Further back it's harder as there were probably fewer bull breeds around and we simply don't know when dogs were involved in some fatalities. It's perfectly possible the involvement of collies, labs and terriers which are all widely owned are underreported.

I do agree that the connection btw bull breeds attacks and death in cases involving children mean you would have to be an idiot to have one in a house with children or anyone frail.

ElmTree22 · 23/04/2023 16:14

Suzi888 · 23/04/2023 13:57

“So we shouldn't ban anything caused by us? That's super illogical. Nothing would be illegal in that case”

@TheyAreMyBhunasPete shouldn’t we address the problem itself?

Humans! But we don’t want to take responsibility do we. Nope. So yeah let’s ban xl bullies and then when the next breed is introduced we can ban that, then ban the next. 🤦🏼‍♀️Sounds like a plan.

Exactly, let's ban all breeds that are over 15kg just to be safe. In fact why don't we just ban all dogs that will rectify the issue entirely.
Absolute nonsense.

Original poster

TheyareEverywhere · 23/04/2023 16:17

Suzi888 · 23/04/2023 13:57

“So we shouldn't ban anything caused by us? That's super illogical. Nothing would be illegal in that case”

@TheyAreMyBhunasPete shouldn’t we address the problem itself?

Humans! But we don’t want to take responsibility do we. Nope. So yeah let’s ban xl bullies and then when the next breed is introduced we can ban that, then ban the next. 🤦🏼‍♀️Sounds like a plan.

How do we address the root of problem though? We can't ban humans.

We can't even enforce the banning of certain people from having animals. If one is removed for ill treatment they just get another one.

I really don't know what the answer is.

OP posts:

Suzi888 · 23/04/2023 16:18

@monsteramunch I just don’t think it’s workable or enforceable. Police can’t do their jobs now, some things are on us. Those with common sense don’t get these dogs, idiots do. Perhaps there should be a law that can bullies are kept on lead and muzzled. That would be more workable. Of course, idiots would still get them and their children may pay the price.

ExtraOnions · 23/04/2023 16:20

People used to keep lions and chimpanzees as pets … but they don’t now, as it’s dangerous. You can still own them under very strict conditions, we need to do the same for some breeds of dogs.
Make it expensive, inconvenient, and intrusive