100k+ salary, is it worth it?

[Goingtogetslated]

For the record…Not trying to be insensitive…

partner and I both earn approx 150k each. Working long and unpredictable hours with high levels of stress and responsibility.

Yet here we are living in a 3 bed terrace in the east end of london, a basic car, neither of us into high end expenses/dining out/clothes. We used to holiday a lot pre children, I guess would classify as our major expenditure in the past.

But is it actually worth it? A decent 4/5 bed house (with kerb appeal I admit) in the commuter belt seems to be coming in at 1.5 million minimum. Add the commuting costs/ extended nursery hours, paid help required theres barely anything left - relatively speaking.

Would we not be better off sacking it all in, moving to the countryside and earning enough to pay the bills?

We appear to be stuck in this middle ground where we earn too much to have any allowances from the state, contribute a lot to the government yet not enough for any real benefits in lifestyle

Well they'd have to pay them more. Or give them allocated housing. Just like they used to.
There IS keyworker accommodation in London but it's very hard to get.

High income households encourage such bullying on Mumsnet. It’s so bad people don’t see the irony in their posts. I don’t know when MN became so bitter and angry against higher earning households.

It’s a weird one too as people spout the tabloid lines and don’t stop to think. Asset wealthy pay little tax. Higher earners on PAYE are literally carrying the heavy burden of all. Millionaires they are not. People are happy to bad mouth them but without them - no welfare system for you.

So many bitter and jealous people - hideous traits.

Exactly this

key worker housing is often arranged through HA and it’s usually single occupancy not for families
You’re obviously expected arrange your own accommodation from your own wages. Can you imagine the media and SM outrage if a consultant were accommodated in cheaper staff residences

when oncall you get a single room onsite. The quality varies,widely

Well they'd have to pay them more you’re aware of the strikes?

Asset wealthy pay little tax. Higher earners on PAYE are literally carrying the heavy burden of all.

This is so completely true.

Bizarrely enough if someone is young with kids and struggling to afford their mortgage, there is no sympathy at all. Told to sell, live within their means. But someone retired with wealth is to be supported to stay in their multi million pound home.

The rich aren’t the high earners very often.

Hi OP I understand where you are coming from, in that DH and I are high london earners who also can’t afford a family house with a garden in a nice part of London (we have moved out to a commuter town and are happy with that now that we only have to commute a couple of times a week. It was painful when we had to do it every day as no time with the kids.)

What we didn’t realise was that family wealth is the key to buying property in London. If you’re not gifted a deposit then you’ve got no chance until you’re in your 40s. It’s depressing and I think it does mean stressful London jobs aren’t worth it unless they are mainly WFH/flexi, as the lifestyle isn’t all that great.

No, actually if high earners didn't exist, then more people would contribute less - you'd have more money being earned in the 20% and 40% tax brackets, and less in the 45% bracket, and much fewer people losing their tax-free allowance (which happens between £100k/yr and £120k/yr).

In order to make up for that shortfall, you'd have to tax lower earners more. Then the 40% payers become the new high earners, and you go around again...until you've got everybody paying more tax just for the country to stay afloat, and they're all wondering why things got worse when they got rid of all those nasty 1%ers.

Just leaving this here again.

All of this. Our household income is a quarter of the OP but I don’t understand what is behind the bitterness of mumsnet towards the people like the OP but simple jealousy.. I mean, well done. And I hope she finds a way to get the life she wants..

It's not true that on a very high income you can't afford a property until you are in your 40s. Loads of people do it, they save for deposits, they purchase flats first in cheaper zones of London, they climb the ladder. Every single person I know who purchased a property in london wasn't earning anything like the incomes being discussed here.

I don't believe posters are posting out of jealousy or vitriol, but because it is so unpleasant to see someone moaning about such a fantastic income, saying they can't afford a 'decent' house, it sounds so detached from reality and ungrateful.

It's actually obvious to me from reading this thread that no it's not 'worth it' to live in OPs situation because if it doesn't lead to contentment then what is the point?
Pack it in and take a lower paid job and enjoy your life. Jobs that require full time working in an office are now quite undesirable, I wouldn't do it for any money.
I'd far rather keep my average salary and work mostly from home and live by the sea.

This is a great explanation. That social contract has gone, particularly for people too young to have substantial unearned equity from our dysfunctional housing system to cushion them. And this is how a situation can arise where so many of us think what OP does is a mug's game.

Very true about wealth taxes too. Really, if you're on PAYE (I am) you aren't all that wealthy. By definition. This is where we need to be looking. There's a limit to how far the labour of the working age population can be squeezed.

I don't believe posters are posting out of jealousy or vitriol, but because it is so unpleasant to see someone moaning about such a fantastic income, saying they can't afford a 'decent' house, it sounds so detached from reality and ungrateful

Due to chronic illness I have a low income as I work part time, yet I don’t find people wealthier people than me posting about their conundrums “unpleasant”.

As a Londoner, I know what London house prices are like and that even with a good salary, affording a decent house is difficult if you don’t have family money, or bought straight out of uni and climbed your way up. A reasonable sized 4-5 bedroom house in my area is £3million +. (I don’t live in one)

Oh wow what a brilliant and novel idea!

Totally not something that was tried in many countries in the 20th century…always with disastrous consequences.

You can still move to North Korea though, I hear everyone makes pretty much the same there - you’re going to love it!

I think you might be right that there is a better option for you. Household income here is 22k, single parent. I get some benefits and work part time so I pick up DC from school each day.

I wouldn’t swap for your £300k household income and all the stress. I hope you find a good balance by making some changes.

If you are on 150k you can afford a property before you 40s. The OP is saying she can't have a (perfect) house for less than 1.5mil fgs. ,Cos none are up to her standards!!! Remind me about where that jealousy is?

The jealousy bit assumes that posters saying the OP is unreasonable are all in lower income households. I'd love to know how people work this out. Is there a hidden way to find out, that I've missed?

And I do maintain that anyone in the top 10% of wages is on a 'stellar' wage.

As for the asset rich v paye thing - if you can afford a 1.5mil property with a mortgage, you simply have cash flow issues in that regard. You will eventually own that property and have she'd loads of disposable income as you pay down the mortgage. It comes back to what I say about wanting everything NOW and this demand thing. Childcare fees are also time limited. It's impatience. Many of those asset rich older people spoken about in the same breathe have had that period of not having the disposable income they might like earlier in their life.

It's the entitlement to EVERYTHING RIGHT NOW, that I have a problem with. And the lack of willingness to compromise or understand it's a long game which involves asset building.

If you want the lifestyle, then you compromise on the house earlier on, and staircase rather than having the 1.5 mil house straight away.

It's those who can't get on the property ladder at all in London I have sympathy for. They don't have the luxury of that dilemma.

There are very expensive areas outside London which local wages mean they are out of reach for all but those who move up from the SE. So again there are always more life opportunities for these poor ickle 150k lifestyle chasers who feel hard done by. Affordability elsewhere is impacted by London wages indirectly. And that does matter.

It comes down to choices and you can here the stamping of feet at not having all the things they want available RIGHT NOW and not having a clue about long term economic security or increasing disposable income as outgoings decrease. And I thoroughly believe that these are people who would merely shift the goal posts if they did get everything on their wish list because they would see Mr and Mrs Jones with something else they didn't have and felt entitled too.

Yes and this is the point.
Im a single parent and work all the time and overtime.
I now have to pay so much of my income on taxes ( thanks also SNP) so it can be redistributed to people who work part time and are more relaxed.

if everyone did this how much would the countries tax revenues fall?
tempting though maybe I’ll go part time !

This.

It’s strange to me that so many people equate a good lifestyle with a huge house and garden. I don’t have a massive house - I live in a flat (with a garden) and earn about 1/4 of OP’s income, and I have a really great life. I went on 5 holidays last year, I’m self employed working mainly from home and most days work fewer than 8 hours so I have loads of free time to rest, indulge hobbies and socialise. I wouldn’t take a 6-figure job that meant working 12+ hour days because I’d hate that. But I don’t see having a 5 bed house as a necessity to improve my life. I’d like a slightly bigger flat, yes, but I don’t think my life would be improved by a house as it’s just more to clean (or pay for a cleaner).

that’s not to say the London housing market isn’t out of control - it is - or that childcare is way too expensive - it is. I don’t have kids so that leaves me more money to do nice stuff with.

OP could easily move to another, cheaper area of London into a 2/3 bed flat and have more disposable income to go on holiday etc. but she won’t, because she’s obsessed with the size and aesthetics of her house. I don’t think anyone is bitter and jealous, it’s just galling that someone with a huge income has chosen an expensive lifestyle then is whinging about it.

@Mirabai if you read the OPs posts, she is saying she cant get a 'decent' house, and is posting houses that are 'non descript' which are over 4000 square feet, over 4 times the size of the average home. There is nothing wrong with posting for advice about any life circumstance, but she is so detached from reality it's ridiculous.
I was born in London, I worked in London most of my adult life, I owned a property, I have never earned anything like what the OP is earning, it is bullshit that you can't live a very good life on that income, total nonsense.
All these posters saying 'you dont know what it's like in London' like it's some kind of alternate universe that only a special elite few can experience, it's laughable, a lot of us live there or have lived there!! London is a big place.

I work full time with a serious chronic illness and pay tax on £57.5K in Scotland.

I applied for PIP a few years ago and scored zero 'because you work full time.'

If I worked part time I'd maybe be less stressed, entitled to various benefits, but I'd contribute far less in tax and work output.

The current system penalises people for working.

My income is £21k. I consider myself very lucky. I do not live in London.

How is your self employment taxed? Not PAYE? Expenses?

At 150k each, your household income is taking a massive 60% + NI tax hit. You'd be better maxing out your pension contributions and aim to retire early.

Per portion, yes, but not total amount as implied by poster.