"As a parent..."

[LaPerduta]

I've just read about a local teenager who was recently subjected to a rather distressing mugging. The person who posted about this said that, "as a parent," she found this horrifying.

AIBU to think that it is not necessary to be a parent to be able to feel empathy/sympathy towards a child who has had a traumatic experience?

As someone who is not a parent, I find this trope to be quite insulting and it's usually completely unnecessary to state. (I'm assuming the person who posted details of the attack doesn't actually mean that they would have found it acceptable had they not had children of their own.)

Why invoke a pro-natal hierarchy, unnecessarily?

@Mark19735 Your tripadvisor example is that there’s a person who has never been to Spain, and is Spainsplaining to those who have all about Spain.

A better example is that the person has been to Spain and had a different experience, but keeps being told that they haven’t been to Spain or that their visit to Spain doesn’t count as it wasn’t a proper one.

You regard it as an indisputable fact that parents are the only ones who can experience Spain, and anyone else is just pretending to have done so and/or has dysmorphia or bitterness about their inability to go there. I find that incredibly arrogant, but recognise that we’re never going to agree.

There have been a lot of posts like yours which proves that many people do develop a deeper sense of empathy after having a child.
However, I did not! I've ALWAYS felt huge, painful empathy for others (especially children). Before having kids I used to hear news stories of abused children and I'd feel like I'd been kicked in the stomach, physically sick. These stories would haunt me. Having a child hasn't changed this one bit! My reaction to children suffering is exactly the same as it's always been.
Please don't think I'm bragging, saying I have more empathy than others. My ex used to say I felt empathy to a neurotic degree and he was right. It's a curse, nothing good about it! It's something I've inherited from my mum.
But what I'm trying to say is that some people (yes even those without kids!) do feel the pain of others extremely deeply. There are plenty of women WITHOUT children who will feel more empathy towards children than women with children!

Well we could always settle this with science rather than opinion. Being a mother ‘generally’ makes you more empathetic. A number of studies. One here.

https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-478801/v1

If you don’t have children you don’t know. Sorry

That is an un peer reviewed study from 2 years ago and as such it’s difficult to know how much credibility to attach to it.

"Generally" bring the key word here - and then you go on to dismiss all childless women in your last sentence!

The humour comes in with parents saying 'having children makes me so much more empathetic. For example when I hear of tragedies now I ìmmediately think of how I would feel if this affected ME PERSONALLY'

Ok try this different reviewed research. Concludes parents under significant changes in social cognition including an increase in empathy. There are others but I assume to can use google too.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-62622-7

Absolutely. I'd argue that having children makes some self-absorbed people even more self absorbed than they were before, and that a number of them are in this thread.

As a scientist (see what I did there?) I know how easy it is to find crap,research studies that demonstrate the argument a person is trying to make.

If this is accurate, does not the Schadenfreude cancel out the empathy?

Or perhaps parents have LESS empathy because they're so focused on their children:
www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/11/having-kids-can-make-parents-less-empathetic/416592/

You can find studies to support any hypothesis.

As a scientist (see what I did there?) I know how easy it is to find crap,research studies that demonstrate the argument a person is trying to make

That’s not an insight. Have you read this one and have feedback? No?

@SallyWD that is an opinion piece. It’s no more legitimate’ than any post on here.

I think they have sometimes more primitive empathy in terms of a visceral response but it doesn't mean anything as their resources will always be channelled into the well being of their children primarily. People without children might be slower to spot and respond to signs of distress in a child but in the long term they have more resources to help a stranded child and will be more able to do so. And then there are all the other differences down to personality and values that probably make more difference anyway.

We a have a limited amount of attention (and fucks) to give and we tend to think and empathize more with the things that affect us and that relate to our own experiences. So I think it's entirely normal for parents to have a particular perspective on a whole range of things.

To care equally about everything all the time - now that would be weird. How would you even function?

As I said, anyone can find a crap study to prove their opinion.

After many many years of working in and around clinical trials I know bullshit when I see it.

Google does not a meta analysis make.

Yes, it’s pretty ironic. And they don’t see it.

I agree with what you're saying OP but I do think people, quite selfishly, have more empathy for a situation when they are able to relate to it. Your example is exactly like when men say "As a father of a daughter...." when talking about violence to women and girls. It's very very common and if you look you'll see it everywhere, there's a reason why the cruel and inhumane murder of Sarah Everard struck many chords with women across the country and somewhat began their consideration that the police aren't all that nice and cuddly protectors of the public - some demographics had been shouting from the rooftops for decades about this but it made no difference until it was relatable.

After many many years of working in and around clinical trials I know bullshit when I see it

@coeurnoir ah I see. When you’re a scientist you can tell a research study is crap by not reading it and just stating so. Come back when you’ve read it

To repeat....one crap paper does not a meta analysis make.

But I can see I'm wasting my breath 🤷‍♀️.

Do you actually know what a meta- analysis is because your sentences are not making any sense?

‘One crap paper does not a meta analysis make?’ Well of course not, how could anyone suggest it did?

I’m simply asking if you’ve read the paper I posted, and to tell me what you think is ‘crap’ about it since you declared it was. Whether there’s a meta review is at this point irrelevant.

you’re not a scientist are you……

Or this thread has become about childless women telling parents that their emotions are wrong and cause offence.

Agreed @wornoutslippers. Seem to be forgetting we were childless once.

Do you actually know what a meta- analysis is because your sentences are not making any sense?

Hope so as I've been involved in writing about 30 of the things 🤣

But you carry on insulting me if it makes you feel better dear.

Your emotions aren’t wrong or offensive.

Suggesting that you’re the only ones capable of experiencing them is both.