Any other school that do auditions for choir and have a DC that hasn't been chosen?

[ChoirAuditions]

My DC hasn’t been offered a place despite trying out several time, this is Key Stage 2 so 7 to 11 year olds and primary aged. Only the best singers are allowed.

I think this isn’t on. I absolutely get limiting places to say 30/40 but surely at this age it should be first come first served? Or another fair system like if you’ve never been before and don’t go to any other school clubs?

I get my DC isn’t the best singer, but I feel they should be given the chance to join in, even if they never get a solo or even get chosen for events etc. I think the same about all choirs, they should be available for everyone to join in not just the best singers. How can they improve if not given the chance?

I get the teacher or TA is giving up their time to run the club but I can’t help feeling gutted for my little DC who tried so hard to get into the choir for the 3rd time and didn’t get chosen again (just had the email from school to say they’re not accepted)

Are other schools like this? DC has SN so can’t do other clubs in school time and I feel that choir would really help their SN, but we’re not even given a chance to see if it will help.

I've looked into local childrens choirs but they seem to run a similar system of only selecting the best singers, there doesn't seem to be a community choir where anyone can join in.

So anything else I can try for them?

Have you spoken to the school?

Are there local drama groups? Singing lessons??

@hopeishere School say it's up to the Teacher or TA running the club to decide selection process, if that's auditions or try outs or similar then it's fair to everyone.

Will look at local drama groups to see if they do singing. I can't see any just choirs and I don't think DC would want to sing alone.

If they r attending competitions they need the best singers only.
Find a MT club and join that.

@Skybluepinky But surely they can just take the best singers to competitions? I'm not worried about that, it just feels really unfair.

Will look at Musical Theatre which is what I'm assuming you mean?

That feels quite harsh at junior age. My DDs junior school has a massive choir that anyone can attend and the secondary has both a fun choir for all and a more serious auditioned one.

It sounds as though they're aiming it at competitions though. Are there any other local options she could do instead? My DD does a non auditioned choir at her Sat music school and our local church has a childrens choir without audition.

If you have the money, then try Stagecoach for musical theatre.

I think it is a shame when things are selective at primary level, for all things like sports teams and choir etc. How do children get a chance to improve if they are told at 8 they are not good enough?

And yes, I know that it is up to teachers, they don't have to run clubs etc, but being inclusive at primary should be the standard.

DS's school has 2 choirs. One can be joined by anyone. The other is by invitation by the music teachers and drawn from the main choir. Both have the opportunity to perform including solos and visiting other schools but the second choir does more complicated things and competitions. DS was invited but chose not to join as he just wants to sing for fun and the second is more serious work.

They have the same system with the orchestra - the unauditioned one makes a very interesting collection of noises

@listsandbudgets Thats a good system, I'm not bothered if DC never gets chosen for solos or to do competitions, they just want to have a bit of fun an sing with their friends, which is the way it should be.

It's the same with sports. I have a sporty child who works hard at their favourite sport but they're just not quite good enough to make the team. We're doing community sports outside of school instead. Near me there are definitely non auditioned children's choirs.

Is it a big school?

DD is at a 2 form entry and choir is open to all Juniors. There's about 40-50 kids in the choir. They do have a behaviour policy for the one trip they go on (similar to all the non-curriculum trips) but otherwise its about showing willing. Its first come first served for the trip (as they only hire one bus)

DC school has an audition choir and an open choir. I don’t have an issue with auditioning for ensembles or choirs - but there should always be an option for those who don’t make the auditioned group, especially at primary school level.

@PuttingDownRoots 2 classes per year but has been undersubscribed for all of the last 10 years including in all of the current junior years. My DCs year group (Y4) only has 50 across the two classes.

Does your council have any music services provision? We’ve got a funded Saturday School orchestra, ukulele lessons and a choir, all open to everyone regardless of standard.

Oh that’s horrible. They should at least have two choirs.

It would be good if they could have two choirs. All children should have some opportunity to sing in a group both for the fun side of it and to start to learn musical skills.

Music provision has declined so much now that children who are good at and interested in things like music don't really get good support either, though, and a large non-auditioned choir might not give them the opportunities they need to really learn to sing in tune carefully, learn harmonies, etc because it can just be focused on getting everyone to learn vaguely approximate notes and rhythms, which isn't much fun for a really musical child who wants something that sounds really good. Lots of schools choirs are just fun singing without any work or really trying to be good, which has a place, but so does a really good choir.

So it would be great if more schools could expand their provision. hard with so few trained music teachers though.

I'd second the suggestion of trying church choirs though. You don't have to be at all religious to join them, and they can be really good at teaching some of the foundations of choral music, even if the child later wants to sing other genres. And usually non-auditioned!

People do know that many, many schools are totally stuck with budget, right? They do know that many schools are under staffed?

Running 2 choirs is not always a possibility.

2 choirs not a possibility. So why not run one big all-ability choir rather than a smaller select auditioned one?
I think at secondary it is fair to audition and select, but at primary it is a shame not to give kids opportunities to try things.

Because then you couldn't do things like competitions - which would then be unfair on the kids with ability.

Of course they could do competitions.
They might not win, but they could have the fun of competing.
And look how well people that Gareth Malone conducts get on.

There is more to life than competitions especially at primary level.

My daughter's school tries to balance the fine line between having a multiple award wining choir and being inclusive.

Generally, choir practice is open to all and when it's only a showcase like the local church or something similar then names are drawn out of a hat for attending when numbers are limited, otherwise the whole 75 strong choir will turn up.

For competitions, only the best performers (not just singers, they need to emote the music too) are selected with a reserve list in order of preference of 10 children. The rehearsals nearest to the competitions tend to be closed to just these singers and the reserve, but that's only now and again.

I think it's a reasonable approach and it's a shame more schools can't do the same. I suppose it's down to staff appetite and what they consider worthy of giving up their time for.

TBF, most music teachers aren't Gareth Malone, and neither do these choir's have the budgets that he does.

My point is, someone is going to lose out somehow, regardless of how you do it.

It's actually alot of work teaching kids music if they don't have a natural flair for it. I can tell you that as someone who runs choirs. Most schools have a tiny slot for choir rehearsals, and most of that tiny window would then be taken up trying to get Mabel, George or Tracy to be able to start on the right note.

I agree, MUSIC SHOULD BE FOR EVERYONE. But not all schools have the staff or budget to make a 'community choir' a possibility, sadly.

But the big non-auditioned choirs aren't really very good, and that's not much fun for the children who might really enjoy being in a good choir that sounds good and does some higher-level stuff. It's not what everyone wants, but some children do. So there is a place for them too. If you don't learn some of it in primary school, it's harder to get children involved and at a good standard in secondary.

of course budget is a consideration. But where possible, it's also helpful to have good choirs that perform at a high standard - and children can learn the fundamentals in music lessons or assembly singing etc. Yes I know not all schools have music teachers or can afford this. But where possible.

I auditioned twice for my primary school choir (1980s). Didn't get in. I think I was about the only child in the history of the school that didn't get in 🤣
I am a terrible singer to be fair.
We did singing in assembly though. A mix of hymns and other songs. We had these rather odd song books that were all old fashioned Music Hall songs ("🎵🎶 Let's All Go Down The Strand......'Av A Banana 🎵").
I got to sing then in my enthusiastic crap singing voice.
Can your child actually sing?

We had worse than this, hilariously bad. The choir got to do a prestigious trip - all paid for - so everyone wanted 'in'. DS was not picked and that was fine. DD was picked, I was surprised as she sings like a cat being drowned. Anyway, whatever. They stuck her RIGHT in the middle. Again, I was shocked. During the 1st rehearsal she was taken on one side and told to 'mime' - she asked for clarification and was told 'like this' (moved mouth no sound). She did as she was told. She did this in all rehearsals. In the real thing she sang her little heart out and probably spoiled it for everyone but enjoyed herself. Idiotic behaviour from the teacher.

I was this child. We could join the choir in year 3, and the teacher let everyone else who auditioned, which was most of the girls in the year group, in except me. I really couldn't sing, but it wasn't some high level selective choir, it was everyone but me! I still remember the shame. Choir for all with sub auditions for certain events should have been the way it went