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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Any other school that do auditions for choir and have a DC that hasn't been chosen?

34 replies

ChoirAuditions · 20/04/2023 13:30

My DC hasn’t been offered a place despite trying out several time, this is Key Stage 2 so 7 to 11 year olds and primary aged. Only the best singers are allowed.

I think this isn’t on. I absolutely get limiting places to say 30/40 but surely at this age it should be first come first served? Or another fair system like if you’ve never been before and don’t go to any other school clubs?

I get my DC isn’t the best singer, but I feel they should be given the chance to join in, even if they never get a solo or even get chosen for events etc. I think the same about all choirs, they should be available for everyone to join in not just the best singers. How can they improve if not given the chance?

I get the teacher or TA is giving up their time to run the club but I can’t help feeling gutted for my little DC who tried so hard to get into the choir for the 3rd time and didn’t get chosen again (just had the email from school to say they’re not accepted)

Are other schools like this? DC has SN so can’t do other clubs in school time and I feel that choir would really help their SN, but we’re not even given a chance to see if it will help.

I've looked into local childrens choirs but they seem to run a similar system of only selecting the best singers, there doesn't seem to be a community choir where anyone can join in.

So anything else I can try for them?

OP posts:
RedEyeBaby · 20/04/2023 15:17

In my experience the problem isn't children singing badly, but no actual sound coming out, whether shyness or whatever. I don't know your dc of course though. Maybe sing as much as you can at home to practise.

RosettaTheGardenFairy · 20/04/2023 15:19

It's a tough one as they need to draw the line somewhere - they can't have cat-warbling kids screeching their way through practices & performances.

I remember this being an issue when I was at primary; the kids who weren't selected for the netball team, their parents suggested a third team so they could have fun, but when they tried it they all got stroppy they weren't picked for games. If your kids can't catch a ball then they can't catch a ball.

It's our job as parents to steer them towards activities they can do, not force them on others, that wouldn't be fair to the ones who can sing.

JarByTheDoor · 20/04/2023 15:19

TeenDivided · 20/04/2023 14:10

2 choirs not a possibility. So why not run one big all-ability choir rather than a smaller select auditioned one?
I think at secondary it is fair to audition and select, but at primary it is a shame not to give kids opportunities to try things.

A choir that everyone can be part of, that values all contributions, and where everyone can have fun and learn is fantastic, and I think every primary school should give children the opportunity to sing together for fun (and not just bloody "Who Put The Colours In The Rainbow" at 9am, with all of those boys who've decided that being in tune is uncool droning along in a continuous B flat — does that still happen?).

But I think maybe choirs which develop skills to a higher level, tackle more complicated pieces, produce an enjoyable, musical sound, and can compete in primary school choir competitions, might also be something kids should get an opportunity to try. It would be dispiriting for those whose aptitude lies in this area, and who want to be part of a group that's working towards high quality performance or participation in competitions, if they can't ever have a go at the more complex or demanding pieces because the music needs to be accessible to everyone, or if every time they go to a competition they come dead last because a few members struggle and affect the performance.

It can also affect how the more advanced members of the choir develop and perform — partly because more focus is on developing the skills of the members who struggle more, because that more drastically affects the sound, but partly because in a choir the members — especially within a section — kind of lock onto each other, get in sync with each other, and keep each other on track, which is especially important for those who, like me, maybe aren't the very best singers, but who can manage when around singers of a similar skill level or better.

I'm only a very mediocre choir singer, but was part of a competition school choir at primary, an all-comers school choir at secondary (though by that age, the ones who really can't manage to approximate the right notes have usually self-selected out), and a fun choir as an adult.

I left the adult choir, because another alto who stood next to me was unfortunately completely tone-deaf and utterly unaware of it. I'm not a good enough singer to be able to stay locked to the notes I'm meant to be singing as part of a small alto section (which is almost always doing harmony stuff, meaning note sequences aren't very intuitive) in a choir doing 4 or 5 part harmony, when someone is very loudly singing entirely wrong notes a foot to my left.

I left, making excuses about why, because it was a fun choir, everybody was welcome, and it was entirely down to me to deal with my problem with staying on-track. I could no longer solidly key into my section, felt I wasn't performing well, and I didn't enjoy it any more. In an inclusive choir, that's my problem, but if you want to run a choir, you'd be aware of how a really struggling singer can pull down the weaker singers around them. It's much more noticeable to me when performing as part of a choir than when performing as part of an instrumental ensemble, too. There's something special about singing as a group that pulls you together into a sort of composite organism — I think that's why religious and cultural groups like to use it, to help form a group identity. (I'd also want to leave a choir where I was consciously aware that I was lagging a way behind in ability, affecting the overall sound with my own voice and making it more difficult for other singers around me, or to be told by the leader if I wasn't aware.) It's not quite like mixed ability with many other activities.

So if a school really can't run both… that's a tricky one, for me. If they do assemblies there might still be group singing for everyone, but I don't know that it really gives that choir experience, and choir singing can be fun and beneficial for all abilities. But being part of an auditioned choir that's working towards particular musical goals is also valuable for kids whose interests and abilities lie there, who might not be great at sports or academics, and whose parents might not be able to support them being in an external choir.

BotCrossedHun · 20/04/2023 15:21

Can you imagine the fury if there was a large unauditioned choir that then only took a select group to the actual competitions/trips/events?! There is no way that would fly, even if that is what had been stated from the outset would happen. You'd have people complaining left right and centre that their child had attended weekly but were not allowed to sing at the important events or that the school was hiding them away or that only the favourites were picked etc etc etc. I think there would have to be a whole separate group from the outset really. But lots of singing in classes, assembly, music lessons, group singing practice, big lunchtime non-auditioned choirs etc can still give lots of opportunity for everyone.

Nightlystroll · 20/04/2023 15:23

Of course they could do competitions.
They might not win, but they could have the fun of competing.

A bit like the England football team! 😂 And look how depressing that is.

I think if you're entering competitions, it should be with the aim of winning. How frustrating for those with talent to be deprived of a title because those who can't sing have to be humoured.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 20/04/2023 15:36

I can see both sides, but on balance, if it isn't possible to have both, I would go with the inclusive option every time.

DD's primary school choir was selective when she started at the school, and remained that way until around Y4. They did some really challenging music and they sounded absolutely amazing. They attended competitions, and even got to do a professional recording at one point. I am very grateful that she had those opportunities, but I recognise that it must have been hard for those who auditioned and didn't get in.

The choir was then taken over by a different teacher when she was a bit older, with a very different approach. All of the kids were welcome, and anyone who wanted to do a solo was able to have a go. For some reason, I will never forget watching them perform I'm school one day...dd's friend's older sister, who has SEN, was singing with such joy and gusto that it makes me cry even now, years later. She would not have had that opportunity in the original choir, because she didn't have the best singing voice, but watching the wholehearted pleasure that she got from being part of that moment was one of the most beautiful things that I have ever seen. And I wouldn't want to deny any child that opportunity just so that mine could enjoy the more "elite" version. At primary school age, I strongly believe that those opportunities should be open to everyone.

Smartiepants79 · 20/04/2023 15:43

Irritateandunreasonable · 20/04/2023 13:49

Oh that’s horrible. They should at least have two choirs.

And who’s running them?? This choir will be happening because someone has given up their lunchtime and their own time on a voluntary basis. I don’t get paid on to run the club I do at school.
School is bloody lucky it’s got someone willing and able to run a choir at all.
That being said, I don’t particularly agree with auditions for primary school choirs but that’s up the the school.
The trouble with this kind of thing is that whatever is decided it doesn’t suit somebody. You get moaning no matter what. So in the end you just have to do what you think is best and stick with it.

Irritateandunreasonable · 20/04/2023 15:44

Smartiepants79 · 20/04/2023 15:43

And who’s running them?? This choir will be happening because someone has given up their lunchtime and their own time on a voluntary basis. I don’t get paid on to run the club I do at school.
School is bloody lucky it’s got someone willing and able to run a choir at all.
That being said, I don’t particularly agree with auditions for primary school choirs but that’s up the the school.
The trouble with this kind of thing is that whatever is decided it doesn’t suit somebody. You get moaning no matter what. So in the end you just have to do what you think is best and stick with it.

Oh calm down love.

ChoirAuditions · 20/04/2023 16:02

Thank you everyone, I left to do some work and came back to the thread full of opinion.

I did say my DC isn't the best singer, but I do think they can hold their own when with a group. But obviously it's not up to me and I am bias.

I think I'll leave it, can see it's an on the fence type issue and I do see the schools point. Will look into other choirs outside of school that might be more inclusive - and thats not a slate of the school, I appreciate what they're doing.

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