To think we are becoming a much poorer country?

[Felixss]

I keep seeing on threads increase taxes on the rich , increase salaries, increase nhs spending and increase benefits. People are acting like we are still hugely wealthy and everyone wants to come over. Poland is predicted to overtake us economically. I can earn twice my salary abroad and I'm thinking of leaving. Where is the money going to come from with a shrinking work force and low investment in new technology? AIBU to think the UK is hugely declining ?

so is the east...china has a much bigger demographic problem than we do, ditto japan

How exactly is investing hoarding?
investment in property via BTL has pushed up the price of property beyond what most can afford, buying up all the houses and then charging extortionate rents to people who have no other affordable options.

so is the east...china has a much bigger demographic problem than we do, ditto japan

Japan recognised this yrs ago & have implemented things to mitigate the impact.

if young people willing to have babies are in short supply then immigrants will be able to pick & chose, they wont be comming here where no one can afford to have children

Exactly why would immigrants come here when lots of western countries will be fighting over them? And we will see more of our young leave eg HCPs going to Oz

All of the UK should pay much more income tax.

I don't think that works when there is so much wealth inequality & a lack of affordable housing.

My 60k job pays 200k in the USA, my dhs job pays 125k over 250 there and the exchange rate is shite.

Wage stagnation is a huge issue, 60k in 2010 is equivalent to 86k today. I know loads of jobs that still pay the same.

How exactly is investing hoarding?

It depends what the investment is. One obvious example is "investing" in the rental housing stock, which is a self-fuelling spiral. Housing is a necessity and has become a vehicle for speculation because it is in short supply and high demand.

Other examples include investing in other necessary utilities and services. Railways, buses, water, electricity and gas are being run to make a profit, subsidised by the government (i.e the taxpayer) and putting money into the pockets of the shareholders rather than back into the community that these vital services are supposed to serve.

Other vital services are also being hoarded and rationed. With sufficient money, a decent education can be purchased in the UK - see the current PM - as can decent healthcare and dentistry. The current chancellor, a millionaire and a relative of the King who comes from a family of landed gentry, has said that there is no more money available for decent public services, so they are rationed. To be clear, he and his party have made a conscious decision not to spend money on public services, or not to tax the richest (he has actually given tax breaks to the very rich in his last Budget) in the same way that he decided to impose a contract on junior doctors that saw them leave the NHS in droves.

Japan recognised this yrs ago & have implemented things to mitigate the impact
I'm not sure what these mitigations are but they still seem to be VERY concerned about the lack of new Japanese people!

People think they're so smart 'investing' in housing because it requires little actual work for a lot of money. You won't be laughing when your kids have no teachers, our infrastructure crumbles even more and there's no one to wipe your backside when you're old and needy.

The current chancellor, a millionaire and a relative of the King who comes from a family of landed gentry, has said that there is no more money available for decent public services, so they are rationed. To be clear, he and his party have made a conscious decision not to spend money on public services, or not to tax the richest (he has actually given tax breaks to the very rich in his last Budget) in the same way that he decided to impose a contract on junior doctors that saw them leave the NHS in droves
Oh yes, Jeremy the cunt, the rich smug cunt
rich people seem to forget that it's the rest of us that do the real work that keeps them at the top of the pyramid.
But now, if you've a good job but still you cant afford a decent lifestyle, there's no healthcare, no dentists, your children will never be able to afford families of thier own why bother?
Might aswell just 'lie flat' and stop making profits for the overlords who are laughing in our faces

A huge issue is our tax system vs benefits.

54% of people now live in households that take more out from the system than they pay in. This includes the cost of schooling for each child, benefits, pensions, NHS etc... This was only around 42% in before 2000.

There has also been a huge increase in the number of people claiming disability benefits and not being able to work since COVID.

We have become "poorer" because more people are wanting to take but are not willing to contribute.

Go back 40 years where benefits were a helping hand until you got back on your feet, not a lifestyle.

It has become too easy to make benefits a lifestyle choice and too difficult to get back into work when you can "earn" the same not working.

I got laughed at by a SAHM for going back to work when I had twins. I earned £20 a week after childcare and petrol. I would have received more in benefits to stay at home, but I liked my job and didn't want to lose it.

There is also a change in mentality over the difference between WANT and NEED. Being able to take out credit and loans to buy things that people really can't afford, when they could get a second hand version for free.

I know someone who NEEDED a new sofa and took out a £2500 loan with DFS which they could barely afford to pay back, when in reality I they could have got a decent sofa for £200 on Facebook which I offered to pick up for them.

It is many changes that have led to the country becoming "poor".

Yes but since the Tories have been in power the number of billionaires in the UK had just about doubled. Surely that's all that matters, serving the super rich so they can have as much money as possible. If public services and ordinary people mattered, we wouldn't vote Tory, we want it live in a country of poverty. After all, surely only the children of the very wealthy should have the luxury of things like dentists.

Not really, it’s because we’ve allowed wages to stagnate for so long and real growth and productivity has been negatively impacted.

Taxing the rich isn’t the solution; it’s everyone earning more and contributing more to the tax pot not everyone looking at the rich to subsidize them.

We don’t need to bring the US into every topic and FYI you’re wrong that only the wealthy get good healthcare in the US, yes there’s a gap for those who don’t have insurance but lower income people are covered by Medicaid etc and majority get covered by their jobs.

And you’re all using the same hospitals, it’s not like there are different hospitals for the rich.

This^

Another week ,another Britain bashing post.

Walked past the bus stop yesterday and noticed a new poster, stating that 49% of children in single parent families are living in poverty. That’s horrific.

I was born in the early 60s. A 1965 survey estimated that 14 % of British families were living in poverty, up from around 9% throughout the 1950s.

I’m not a statistician and am not sure how the two compare. No doubt someone here will be able too. I don’t imagine there were very many single parent families during those decades, either. I was raised in one from the early 70s and knew no others.

It seems to me, though, that the nation is going backwards. The terrible photographs of the flat where little Awaab Ishak died as a direct result of mould infestation that put me in mind of historical photographs of City slums decades ago.

When is any government going to take the bull by the horns and do something about squalid housing conditions and monstrous rents? They won’t, because none of them think any further than the current term of office.

When was the time in Britain where the vast majority of people weren't poor or just getting by? Businesses are getting bigger and bigger & richer and richer but your average family have always struggled haven't they?

You can either have a welfare state/adequate housing/functioning NHS or open borders. Not both unfortunately.

YANBU

The decline started with the banking crash of 2008. This government have done everything they can to gear it so that their rich buddies and sponsors get to hang onto their wealth while everyone else gets screwed.

They've exceeded even their own hopes in that the rich haven't just retained wealth, they've increased it beyond all expectations.

The rest of us are shafted. We are living in a poorer country than we did twenty years ago.

I agree that taxing the rich isn't the solution, higher wages is the solution (and vastly more, quality, social housing). Unfortunately, mega rich people won't share the profits, that everyone in the company helped make, fairly with the workers. I don't know how we get them to do that. I remember reading once that the cost of Philip Green's third superyacht was approximately equivalent to the amount staff employed in his shops had claimed in tax credits in a year because they couldn't live on the wages he paid.

@Honbee If you can afford good healthcare in the UK you get it too. Ask Sunak.

It will get worse because many of the electorate have become radicalised and will vote for bollocks which harms them. All they need to hear is something about dinghy’s and they will run to the ballot box to vote for more austerity. They can’t be helped.

Even the opposition are obsessed with appealing to the ‘red wall’ voters who will vote us in to developing world status.

For many voters the answer appears to be tax the middle class more. They don’t understand the net contributors are dwindling with more taking out than those putting in. Instead of asking how we improve services/processes/investment, the answer seems to be ban others from having what I don’t have.

DH and I have voted against Cameron’s austerity, Johnson’s Brexit and Sunak’s managed decline. We’re working hard and are net contributors, however, there seems to be a lot of resentment that we have more than others and live in ‘that London’.

There’s a real crabs in a barrel mentality in this country. I resent paying pensions and benefits to those who made us all poorer. We’re waiting until DC1 completes secondary then leaving as I would resent it even more for DC to be paying taxes to support people who limited their choices. Fortunately, DH and therefore kids are dual nationals and we have in demand skills.

as a young person renting is becoming so unaffordable , and I can't afford to buy.
we have an aging population, but you don't want to address young peoples concerns. We focus on all the older people in society and that is a major issue in this country.

I earn £34k and I'm looking to move, and I just cannot afford to pay over £1000 a month for a room. Unfortunately my job means I need to be in London therefore I have to pay London rent. But even my friend in Manchester at the minute are struggling to find affordable rent because Londoners are moving out of London.

I probably won't have children, just because I can't afford to rent a good size home I can't afford childcare. this is a problem as well.

Brexit always gets mentioned on this thread. But if you look at the graphs the slide for the UK began in 2008 - the Global Financial Crisis.

Until then the UK had generally been outperforming other countries in economic growth, even Germany, as I recall, since the early 90s.

The UK was particularly exposed to the GFC because it has a giant (and still very profitable) financial sector. Its public and household finances are still dealing with the fallout of the GFC and will be for some time to come in a way that just about no other countries are. There really needs to be more of a discussion about this: Brexit was just the effect- this was the cause.

The UK had also been the EU's financial services provider, basically. Whether in hindsight that was a good thing is a matter for historians to discuss in good time.

I find posts about brexit as bloody boring as self 1D snd the trans nonsense. Cost of living crisis not here but obviously aware could be elsewhere just sharing my experience.

We live in an fairly affluent area so bars pubs clubs packed.

Christ the garden centres need booking for a lunch on a week day let alone weekend

Our city brum is packed bloody packed every weekend.

I

It’s funny how people find the concept of greed and hoarding most unattractive when it’s other things (loo roll) but people see no problem with wealth hoarding. Those people actively harm the economy and the wealth of everyone else. Wealth hoarding to the degree which we’ve allowed it means that those assets and money are not circulating and that’s what an economy is after all. No one become mega rich through just their own hard work, let’s stop calling them wealth creators and call them hoarders. Re frame the discussion.

Another week ,another Britain bashing post.

I know of at least one European country where:

• Ambulances arrive within 10-15 minutes - often quicker;
• It is possible to walk in and see a GP within 15-20 minutes;
• There are generally no waiting lists for hospital appointments;
• Minor operations are available within 2-4 weeks - majors max. 2-3 months;
• Public transport runs on time and is clean and reliable;
• An annual ticket for local public transport costs €365;
• In some months, Fridays are "Free-days" - public transport is free for the day;
• The standard of living and quality of life are far higher than the UK;
• Housing is not subject to speculation and is generally affordable.

Compare and contrast with the UK, and then rather than complaining about "another Britain bashing post" ask yourself why you not demanding the same conditions in the UK that are common throughout much of Europe (and that used to be within grasp in the UK before the Conservatives set about destroying the post-war Welfare State).