To not know what to do - dog related

[Dogconfused]

my partner and I want to get a dog but cannot decide between trying to get a rescue or a puppy. Pls can people offer advice/opinions?
we have thought long and hard about the pros and cons of each…
Rescue pros

• helping a dog in need
• helping a charity
• Dog may be less needy than a puppy
• can get clearer idea of dogs character
• cheaper

Rescue cons

• don’t know genetic/health/physical history of dog
• Potentially harder to train than a puppy
• Would be from abroad so (low) risk of parasitic disease (would be tested for these)

Puppy pros

• more choice over what we get and when we get it
• more knowledge of puppies past and parents health etc
• potentially easier to train as stating from young

Puppy cons

• not helping a rescue
• cost is higher
• potentially more needy at beginning

we have given it a lot of thought, but cannot decide what option is best for us (and the potential dog). We are definitely in favour of rescues but want to make sure we get the right dog for us.

for context, we are first time dog owners who have no children or other pets. We have a large garden and live in a town. We enjoy longer walks, paddle boarding, beer gardens etc. We would want a dog to come out and do things with us. We would want a small dog as our car is small.

if we got a rescue it would be from Romania but from a charity with a UK presence and support system. If we got a puppy it would be from a licensed breeder with lots of research into them etc.

Sorry that’s long but didn’t want to drip feed.
all opinions gladly received!!

My vote is for a rescue as well. And like a PP said, one thats a little more mature in years as well. But whatever dog you choose its paramount to research what the breed needs in terms of a home-life/exercise/diet and what health conditions they are prone to as well. Its also really important to already have the time to dedicate to them and not think you will find it when you get them home. Even the smaller breads need multiple walks, stimulation and human interaction.

We recently were fortunate enough to be able to rehome a dog from a family that were just unable to provide her with a good home. It was awful where she had been, bordering on just pure neglect. Thank god we found her. She is settling in nicely but is far more reactive to other dogs/people than our other dog that we had since she was puppy. I think rehoming a dog is such a nice thing to do as long as you are in it for the long-haul. Theres another poster on here talking about rehoming his dog he has had 4yrs for a 1yr relationship as the gf is allergic... they become part of the family they arent a nice to have or an addition.

We've had three UK rescues. All with their little quirks. All were a risk and needed work, all three were lovely.
We've had two from puppies as well. They are hard work but with care you can end up with a dog that fits with you and is a known quantity. Our latest pup is lovely but he's a terrier and has absolutely no recall despite our best efforts even after three years.

If you want to see a Romania rescue follow
Rory Cellan Jones on twitter- he has a rescue dog - Sophie from Romania
https://twitter.com/ruskin147 and tweets regularly. She was supposedly a known quantity and was okay with her foster family but was obviously tramautised on the journey to the UK and perpetually hides behind the sofa, will only come out on rare occasions, won't tolerate a lead and is a very scared dog. Their life together is not as they imagined it would be. I think they had dreams of long walks, afternoons in the pub with the dog. Not sure it will ever be achievable They've had her since Christmas and progress is very very slow (painfully) even allowing for a couple of months decompression.

While this might be true of some foreign rescues, it's certainly not true of all. We've just adopted a rescue pup from Romania, and this particular rescue bring the dogs to the UK, get them a good foster home and then worry about adoption; the very opposite of "brought in to order".

In response to the OP...if you're going to get a rescue dog, choosing the right one for you is absolutely the most important part. Look at your own experience of dogs, how confident (realistically) you are in your ability to support them, and also question the rescue themselves on the support they offer. For example, the rescue we've just worked with use double chips and they can't be removed from it - effectively, they've committed to being there for the dog for life. They've been in contact with us daily, sent us medication for his mange infection, and have been invaluable with advice from the foster family.

Equally, though, if you're thinking about a puppy then...how confident (realistically) are you that you can raise and train that puppy to be a confident, safe and happy adult? Don't rely on puppy classes as a cure-all here, they're only a small component of what it takes to properly raise a dog from 8 weeks.

For what it's worth, we've had many rescue dogs over the years, and I still wouldn't be confident that we could properly raise a dog from a puppy; we're just better at helping dogs assimilate and recover from the trauma of rescue (and what put them there in the first place).

Thanks everyone for your responses and it’s really helpful to see the range of opinions. It is definitely a minefield!
For context, we have reached out to UK rescues but not had much luck. We live in a flat and the garden is shared access (only with the flat above) which we think may be seen to be an issue. Additionally we have struggled to find a UK dog which fits our brief (small, young, ideally female) which does not have behavioural issues and would not be suitable (eg does not like men, reactive - we live in an area with lots of dogs around where we would walk) so it’s not like we have turned lots of these opportunities down in favour of a dog from abroad.
we have found a charity that has done a home check and approved our flat/garden. While they do rescue from abroad they have a UK base so we would go and meet the dog first, and they offer full back up and support if something goes wrong. We would not be rescuing from one of the charities where you only see the dog online and receive it directly from its travel from abroad.
please keep sending opinions but just wanted to explain that :) Thankyou

Many tears is the way to go they had 40 dogs arrive in one night 96 last week they have every dog you can imagine some puppies some older I am biased we have a rescue from there and raise money for them. Our rescue has been the most rewarding thing I’ve ever done

They do have dogs that can be only dogs as well

If several rescues have turned you down it's because you're not a suitable dog owner/have a suitable set up. The fact that you're looking at foreign rescues because their adoption bar is so low tells me everything I need to know. Just don't get a dog at all.

I have several friends who have rescued from reputable breed specific rescues in the UK and had excellent experiences. Well placed dogs, often from loving homes who have simply not been in the right setting for them but once their needs are met can thrive really well in a new setting. It takes a lot of uncertainty out of the process. I will definitely do this myself next time I am looking for a dog.

All puppies are arseholes for most of the first two years. They get better and they can be very cute. And they are arseholes in different ways. But they are guaranteed to do something that drives you nuts.

Do not rescue from abroad. It is unnecessary when there are dogs here needing a home and if you are worried re unpredictability it is about the most unpredictable way to get a dog. I have met some wonderful rommie rescues but the majority I see out and about are v reactive, not their fault, they had a tough start and adapting to life as a pet is difficult for them. You need to really adjust your expectations as to what having a pet is like to get one.

Thanks for the update. Is young just because you want to enjoy your pet for a long time? I get that but adopting an older dog can be rewarding, and accepting your dog is here for a good time not a long time can mean you get more choice of temperament and size. Also healthy breeds can live a surprisingly long time, so if you got a mature terrier at 7-8 you might get to enjoy another 7-8 years with it.

I'd still suggest foreign rescue doesn't give you any advantages over UK rescue. Loads of small dogs are fine in flats - identify the breeds you are interested in and reach out to their breed clubs if need be. Companion breeds that are popular with older people can sadly become homeless when their owner dies but in those cases need a safe cosy home with someone around a lot which is what you can offer.

Do not get a border collie. That's just general life advice you can have for free (I do love mine really!).

Have you thought of dog sitting? There are organisations like Barking Mad that match sitters to clients who are going away or out for the day.
This way you’d get some dog owning experience to help you decide.
We have our DS’s dog when they’re away. We dog sat him from a puppy, so knew what that entailed.
I’d now look at a specific breed rescue for a slightly older dog.

Be aware that even if a foreign dog tests negative for diseases, a parasitic disease such as Leishmaniasis can be dormant for several years - so it is very possible for the dog to test negative but to still be infected. While Leish is treatable, especially if caught early, and many dogs go into remission and remain healthy, some require repeated treatments. It can also be expensive so make sure that you are covered with your insurers.

Puppy - a huge amount of hard work at the beginning (first few months - toilet training, mouthing etc); then hard work in different ways up until they're about 2 years old (adolescence, fear periods, training, can't leave them alone for longer than a certain time as they get bored and chew things).

Rescue - a real unknown, you can get lucky, unlucky, or somewhere in between. Some have real difficulties which require very intensive training and many owners aren't up to it, so they just put up with the problems e.g. reactivity to other dogs, can't let them off the lead, aggression over food...

We went for the puppy option - going into it with eyes wide open, knowing it would be hard work in the beginning, lasting a good 2 years and keen to spend lots of time training. 2.5 years later we have a brilliant dog who has benefited from our training and love. No reactivity, good recall, full of love, great with visitors, can be left alone. Not perfect of course!

My relative went for the rescue option as she didn't want the puppy period (and who can blame her!). Dog is OK in terms of other dogs but has a HUGE problem with barking, especially when he sees a ball being thrown. This is having a real effect on my relative's life - neighbours and others have complained - and she has been considering rehoming him. The rescue have tried to help but only via phone call which hasn't really been effective, dog needs intensive training.

We’ve had three rescues and no behavioural issues other than one was bit anxious with new people but only until they gave him a treat! One thing to think about is whether you want to commit to a dog for say 14 years (if you get a puppy) or less if you get an older dog. We love having dogs but they are a massive commitment and you lose a lot of freedom, so we like adopting older dogs plus they tend to be much calmer than puppies.

I'm uneasy about the ethics of rehoming Romanian dogs. As other posters have said, they are generally street dogs 'rescued' to order to supply the demand here. But what makes us think that street dogs need to be rescued? They are quite distinct from pet dogs. They aren't simply dogs that have strayed from their homes, they are an independent population that lives alongside humans rather than with them. What are we rescuing them from? Why do we assume that transporting them hundreds of miles to a completely alien lifestyle is better for them? How is it different to rounding up squirrels from the local park and keeping them as pets (apart from that being illegal)?

Bollocks .

With our dog it was only the initial toilet training that was the most hard work and for us that only latest a few weeks before being toilet trained day and night.

After that it was a few weeks of mad biteyness but we taught her tug if war so she would run for the rope instead, still does that now if she gets over excited.

Then it got easier and easier till around 10 months and she has been a dream ever since.

So definitely not 2yrs of hard work here. I guess it depends on the breed of dog and actual puppy itself. We seem to have a very bright one who wants to please us.

We also foster for Many Tears and they are also hard work in a very different way. The previous one took about 4 weeks to be fully house trained, the one we have now was clean from day one. Their issues are introducing them to the world and building confidence in people, although a few are quite confident and the odd one does come from a home instead of puppy farms.

Sorry OP but based on your latest update I wonder why you are pursuing this when UK rehome centers have assessed your home as unsuitable. They don't reject potential owners because they are just really picky!

Of course those importing unwanted dogs from abroad will say your set up is fine - they want to get a dog off their hands and they want your £££££!! (How much do they want by the way?)

You only have a shared garden. There will be dog shit (sometimes very watery so cannot pick up easily) and wee which will smell. The people who share the garden may well object.

Are you on the ground floor? If not you will have to take the dog down stairs to the garden at any hour of the night. They get sick sometimes and puke (and runny shit) where you really wish they hadn't.

Do you both WFH? Is someone always there with it? Are you prepared to hear it howling and whining if you both go out?

Have you considered all these downsides?

Please educate yourself as to what a Romanian's dog's life is like before posting. They are not all street dogs. Some live with elderly people and when the person dies the dog, who has lived its whole life as a pet, is simply put out onto the street.
As for those born on the streets, they don't live happily enough alongside humans. They are considered vermin by many people and treated appallingly. Some do manage to carve out some kind of life but they are in constant danger from other dogs but also from traffic, and mostly from people. They are then eventually inevitably rounded up and taken to the public shelters where they are subjected to utterly inhumane treatment.

Many don't make it out alive but the 'lucky' ones get taken to a private shelter where they usually endure poor conditions (because of a lack of money) and the really lucky ones get the chance of a new life.
As awful as the journey must have been for her, I think if you asked my dog she'd say it was well worth it for the life she has now.

I would agree with you that if the dogs genuinely had reasonable lives there, they should be left where they are, but they don't. And I think that that is the real answer: to allow other animals to have a life free from human interference but that is not the case for most Romanian dogs or in fact almost all other animals on this planet.

I do think we have to be careful about importing new diseases into this country though. My dog was already here and I am undecided as to whether I'd adopt directly from overseas or not.

As for dogs being 'rescued' to order: My dog cost £300 to bring over. She was vaccinated, spayed, microchipped, transported, all taxes and VAT and import costs were paid. She had previously been housed and fed at the private shelter. I fail to see how anyone is making any money out of this despite the lower cost of living in Romania.

Are you intending on having children at any point in the future or children who will regularly visit your house? If yes then you'd be looking for a very specific rescue and must rescues would suggest children being 8 and over so they can learn how to approach a dog safely. We tried for a while to adopt a dog but kept getting passed over for other more suitable owners (absolutely the right thing for the rescues to do as its the dogs needs that are important). In the end up we got a pup from an ethical breeder and its been the right decision for us as we were able to put a lot of time into training and now we have a young family and we know our dog has been able to grow with our son and his response to commands is strong. You say a puppy would be needy initially but so would a rescue, often dogs in rescues will mask because rescue itself is a highly stressful environment for dogs despite the best efforts of staff. So you will have a lengthy period of getting to know a dog and letting them get to know you and build trust. I personally wouldn't adopt from abroad because there are so many dogs in need here and I often wonder how many dogs could be helped with the cost of transporting one from abroad when local charities are available in those countries.

Since neither of you have ever owned a dog before, I think you should volunteer at a shelter first so you can be trained on dog behaviour and communication. As a pp said, you may also find a breed of dog that suits your personality and activity levels. Once you have a puppy/dog, sign up for dog training classes. These are 50% trading the dog and 50% training you.

I'm very well educated on the lives of Romanian dogs, thank you.
The dogs are rounded up and kept in poor conditions in shelters precisely because there is a market for them here. You are being naïve to think otherwise.

The fact that you think you’ll get an accurate temperament/character assessment or reliable screening for diseases like leishmania or brucella from a foreign rescue organisation indicates you need to do a LOT more research @Dogconfused

I’m going to point out the obvious here as you’ve said you’re a first time dog owner to be. You live in a flat with a shared garden. I want you to know you absolutely cannot leave a dog home alone in a flat all day while you are both at work. So your schedule has to allow for someone home with the dog 24/7 or a dog day care type of situation.

I’ve got 2 dogs, both from reputable breeders and had them from pups (5 years apart). Both gorgeous happy dogs. The U.K. rescues wouldn’t touch as back when we first looked as we both work full time. They didn’t factor in that both roles are from home. We rarely go into an office, both travel but always one of us at home.

I would not touch a rescue for dogs coming from abroad. My dd did and they’ve received a highly reactive dog that limits their own quality of life with no support, they were told if they took it back the rescue woul Pts so now 2 young people are tied to a dog who is so aggressive to strangers that we can’t ever visit them. I’m sure there are some good ones but I personally would only ever take on a dog from a puppy.

the puppy stage is very hard though, they’re babies, they take a lot of work in the beginning (worth every second in my opinion)

I can't speak for all organisations of course but this isn't how the organisation my dog came from operates.
But I'm not going to argue with someone who thinks that adopting a dog from Romania is like keeping a squirrel from the park as a pet.
Sorry for derailing, OP.